Any thoughts on how to fix this or volunteers to come shoot me?

1) yes
2) yes
3) not sure
4) yes
5) YES

 

you can fix it in car I think. I have an 85 308 so I can't say that everything is the same but here is what I've learned. On my car I have rear cam belt covers that are black fiberglass. Just above and behind each cam belt gear on the black cover are steel triangular pointers pointing down at the cam shaft. There is a corresponding line scribed on the camshaft that will line up with the steel arrow on the rear cam cover letting you know that you are in or near time.



You should be able to rotate it backwards CCW a bit to pull the valves off of the pistons. That front bank exhaust cam will want to rotate CCW always.

Before you take the belt off to fix the problem do what I did. Use a level on the other cam gear and mark 90 degrees up and down at level on the cam gear. If it rotates you can bring it back to it's original position by using the marks you made with your sharpie and a small level.
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PM and I'll send you my phone # is you have any questions. I have a lot of first timer advice since I didi my first change last month.

Steve

 

having had the same problem on my old 308 i can totally sympathize with you.

I think the good news is you most likely did not bend anything... the bad news is - its gonna be a lot of work to make it right.

i think you can reverse the engine to get things back to all the proper timing marks, but not really sure how, most likely think you would have to rotate the cam by the gear & not the belt. but again not sure.

I would PM Verrell on here and ask his opinion.

as for taking the cam covers off in the car, again not sure about the mondial, my guess is that you may lack the room to do it.

Best of luck! just have to stay calm and it will work out. the good news is again doubtfull if you did any real damage to the valves or pistons.

 

From Robworkz 328 belt change thread.

1. Set the tensioner so as to give max space for the belt and tighten the bolt to hold in place. This is the setup for general belt removal without removing the tensioner. Post 10 above shows pics for this.

2. Use the large socket (35-36 mm for the 328) to rotate the crank clockwise in small steps so as to re-gain TDC. Do this simultaneously with step 3 do avoid 'stops' ( when a valve contacts a piston). If you do hit a stop, just slightly rotate the crank in reverse so as to make room to move the cam pulley.

3. Use a small socket wrench to rotate the cam pulleys into place (socket size is abour 17-19mm). It should rotate by hand with moderate pressure (not the 72 ft-lb to tighen to the cam shaft). FYI: the reason the cam pulley doesn't stay in place is that the valve train is in an unstable spring arrangement when in proper phase at TDC. Having the plugs in will not add pressure to force cam shaft, just the valve spring network.

4. When the cam pulley being aligned is in proper position, insert a piece of wood to hold in place (I used a 1x2x6 piece with a paint stirring stick inserted at an angle so as to allow it to press into the cam pulley between the pulley and the head).

5. When both pulleys are in held their proper phase positions and the crank is at TDC, you are aligned. If all is held together well enough, then you should be able to install the belt and release the tensioner pulley. Then you can load the belt again and check for proper timing.

6 Be sure to take small steps and note that ANY STOPS ENCOUNTERED DOING THIS MEANS THAT A VALVE IS TOUCHING A PISTON: DON'T APPLY FORCE INTO THIS CONDITION!!! Just go slow and note that you can go a little bit in the reverse direction on any component to make room for repositioning.

 

Don't fool around with any shortcut method or guessing, you could end up doing more harm. Just stop the work, and remove the covers. While the cars are essentially the same, they were built by different technicians at the factory and maintained by different people along the way. So presuming what alignment marks may mean is a bad thing.

Removing the covers isn't a great deal of work, just time and patience and a couple hundred dollars for replacement gaskets.

But at least you will be able to set everything up correctly, with no guessing. And if you need to change the cam seals or anything else, you're that much closer to the parts as well.

You'll be able to install new belts and tensioners without guessing, and after it's all setup, you can then put the covers back on knowing everything is aligned correctly.

My $.02.

Good luck,
Phil

 

Gents, it's easy to say "stop, take the cam covers off, and line everything up before going further." What's tougher is to realize that Peter is working with a 3.2 mondial cab....and getting the front bank cam cover off with the engine in the car is extremely difficult.

It's a vastly different situation than a 308 where there's at least a bit of room to work on the front bank (though still not that easy).

So, the preliminary question for Peter is "will the front bank cam cover come off with the engine in the car?" If yes, then he obviously can get a rough alignment with the marks on the cam caps and the timing marks through the bell housing...and worry about dialing it in more precisely down the road.

I did manage to remove the front bank cam cover on my 3.2 mondi cab with the engine in the car - was a few years back, and it was very, very difficult. As I recall, I had to remove some studs here and there, remove my watch and wedding ring, and perform some yoga moves to be able to access everything. If I had to do it again I'd probably remove the engine and clean things up elsewhere, but I have a 2-post lift in my garage so it's likely a little easier for me than some.

Anybody else here removed the front cam covers on a 3.2 mondi cab with the engine in the car?? tips or tricks?

 

Amen Cliff. I think Peter needs to get it close in-car and then get the timing properly aligned later by bringing it to a garage. If Peter (and I mean no ofense Peter) got the engine rotation direction wrong tensioning the betls then pulling the covers and replacing gaskets might be too much to handle. It might be too overwhelming for him to repair all of that and then finish the belts with confidence.


Or

simply call a tow truck and have it brought to your local Ferrari shop and be done with it.

 

This is exciting, I have something useful to add. I pulled the cam covers on my 87 3.2 cab. Of course, did it from the access panel inside the car. I suggest putting a disposable sheet over the seats, I was in and out many times. For me the trick to getting it out was removing the crankcase ventilation nipple. It is on the drivers side and is threaded into the cover. With it in place I could not get the clearance, but when removed it wasn't too difficult. It came straight up on the studs, the whole cover went toward the drivers side, then out through the access hole into the rear seat. I also loosened the throttle cable and the dip stick tube at the base of the engine to rotate it out of the way. I'll have to see if I have any helpful pictures.

 

These pictures are basically worthless beyond the curiosity of folks who haven't seen our access panel. It isn't clear why your belt slipped either, loosening then tightening the tensioner shouldn't do it, you'd need a fair amout of slack for it to slip. Did you have the spark plugs in it? That would have created more tension. I pulled all the plugs out so I was only fighting spring tension. In the first pic you see the throttle cable in the middle and the dipstick tube on the left. The nipple I spoke of was at the top right in the picture but you can't see it. The crank pulley is spun clockwise and the belts spin counterclockwise. I made a lot of marks. It's not possible to see but each cam gear was basically held with a different pin location on my car. I marked everything as I pulled it apart, and only made a few oops. If you are unsure about the process it might be worth considering taking it to the shop. The dipstick alone took me hours to get loose between working around the alternator and trying to find a good angle to get on the bolts. I think I got it from underneath after moving a few things.
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Every time I see a pic of the belt layout on these engines it just makes me wonder what the heck the engine designers were thinking. That abrupt angle between the cam gear/tensioner puts a lot of strain on the belt with associated increased wear. I guess that's why Ferrari eventually decided that the time/miles for a belt change had to be nearly cut in half. I just cannot understand why they elected to use belts instead of a chain.

 

How about a boatload less inertia, weight, and noise (although the plastic sprockets was a bit risky). They tried a chain on the 206/246 -- it's not exactly trouble-free with infinite life and silent-running. IMO, it's the 308 belt drive system (especially the early design) that should get more of the blame -- a neglected system with 1/4" of runout and oil spewing everywhere, but, when catastrophe strikes, it's a "belt" problem .

 

My experience has been like PV Dirk's on the 3.2 forward valve cover. Comes off no problem, all work being done from above the car, either from the top of the engine compartment or through the access panel.

There's a couple of nuts and bolts that are a little hard to reach, but if you're at all used to working on foreign sports cars/tight engine compartments, they aren't anything too unusual.

It's not much more difficult than doing the rearward one. I found that I did have to remove the throttle cable to get the forward cover off. I didn't do anything to the oil dipstick tube.

 

I think this is best advice, he needs to take the valve covers off, not to mention unbolt the cam sprockets, basically he needs to correctly time his cams, find the correct TDC,...

Good time for new valve gaskets, cam seals, distributor seals and valve adjustments too.

Good luck and do _not_ start that engine unless you're 100% sure.

 

Good luck Peter. Take and post a couple of pics if you would while you're at it. By the way, I love driving the Mondial in the fall. I hope you get her fixed soon.

 

Peter, I live in Everett and have an '87 328. I will be out of town till Labor day but if you get stuck or just want to chinese blue print from my car PM and I'll see if I can help. I have too many tools in my garage and they should get used more often. I work for beer.

"Remember, we're all in this together" - Red Green

 

You might want to make one of these to lock the cam pulleys and restore sanity

Simple wooden blocks cut to the pulley radius and some bolts to clamp them to lock the cams. I still marked everything up in triplicate too before I released the tensioner. I might spend some time and machine up a nicer set from nylon for the next belt change.

Lee
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