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3500GT Barnfind

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by mfletch, Jan 8, 2009.

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  1. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
    480
    #176 mfletch, Jul 28, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
    Hi Wilfried, I hope you are doing well. I have not installed the master cylinder/pedal assembly yet. I purchased the original rubber bellows for the pedals. Thanks for the information. Ivan, thanks for posting the pictures.

    I am currently installing the rear wheel cylinders. Does anybody know if the bleed nipple faces up or down? My manual does not show the back side of the wheel cylinders. I took pictures of them, but I can not read the part numbers. They are numbered Girling 301310W and 301300W. Thanks.
     
  2. flaviaman

    flaviaman Formula Junior

    Jul 26, 2005
    318
    Vernonia, OR
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    Gregg
    #177 flaviaman, Jul 28, 2010
    Bleed nipples always face up!

    I am enjoying this thread, first real "exotic" I was in contact with was a 3500 GT that belonged to a dentist in town, this must have been 1969 or so...

    Cheers

    Gregg
     
  3. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
    480
    #178 mfletch, Jul 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. lavaux

    lavaux Karting

    Jul 18, 2009
    124
    Cully, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Wilfried Vogel
    #179 lavaux, Jul 31, 2010
    Mark,
    This seems strange to me: if the bleed nipple is lower than the input pipe, then you will not be able to get all air out of the cylinder. Could you invert left and right to get the bleed nipple to the top?
    Lavaux/Wilfried
     
  5. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
    480
    #180 mfletch, Jul 31, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Wilfried. here is a picture of the wheel cylinder and the backing plate. Please excuse the mess, I have a couple hours of cleaning to do on the backing plate/wheelwell area, prior to installing the brake drum assembly. The shape of the backing plate exactly matches the crescent shape on the wheel cylinder body. It can not be installed inverted on the other side. Thanks again for the great instructions on how to remove and install the brake shoes.
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  6. lavaux

    lavaux Karting

    Jul 18, 2009
    124
    Cully, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Wilfried Vogel
    #181 lavaux, Aug 1, 2010
    Hi Mark,
    I was so puzzled about this that I drove this morning to the hangar to inspect my 3500GT: the bleed nipple is DOWN as on your car. On the other side I must say that I had no problem to get the air out of the system after rebuilding! So my remark that with the nipple down you cannot get the air out is wrong. At least with that model of brake cylinders. Perhaps the manufacturer has managed to drill a hole from the (low) nippel up into the upper part of the dead volume? If I had such a cylinder in my hands I couls check that, but they are both mounted on my car. On the Jaguar cylinders there are two symmetrical places, one up, one down, where you can mount the bleed nipple OR the feed line.
    Wilfried/Lavaux
     
  7. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    #182 thecarnut, Aug 1, 2010
    What if you were to swap the bleed nipple with the red blanking plug? Having the bleed nipple in the bottom does not make much sense as some air will be trapped.

    If the only way to install it is with the bleed nipple down then I suggest you bleed the brakes by slightly opening the top line to let the air escape.

    Ivan
     
  8. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
    480
    #183 mfletch, Aug 1, 2010
    Hi Wilfried, knowing your background and experience, you did have me worried for a few minutes...until I went back out to the car and double checked. Thanks for checking your car.

    Ivan, they are both the same size thread. I would have a hard time getting the hard line to make the sharp bend into the lower hole. With my luck, I would cross thread the hard line into the nice soft aluminum wheel cylinder hole. When I go to bleed the brakes, I will keep in mind opening the hard line...thanks.
     
  9. lavaux

    lavaux Karting

    Jul 18, 2009
    124
    Cully, Switzerland
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    Wilfried Vogel
    #184 lavaux, Aug 2, 2010
    Hello Mark,

    I have just a funny suspicion: could it be that the guy who mounted the backing plates on all our 3500GT inverted the left and right side plates?? If they are symmetrical, except the cut-out for the cylinder, then this would explain the strange bleednipple-down arrangement.

    It's just a thought. As I said, I had no problem with bleeding out the air, albite the "wrong" arrangement. So it would certainly not be worth to inverte the plates, even if that would be possible.

    Lavaux/Wilfried
     
  10. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    #185 ColdWater, Aug 2, 2010
    Suggest that you look for "S" and "D" marks on the backing plates. That is how left and right are marked on earlier A6s.
     
  11. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
    480
    #186 mfletch, Aug 7, 2010
    Wilfried, that is an interesting idea, I bet it would work...way too much effort for me.
    Cold Water, I will look for them when I clean the passenger side.
     
  12. lavaux

    lavaux Karting

    Jul 18, 2009
    124
    Cully, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Wilfried Vogel
    #187 lavaux, Aug 7, 2010
    Hello Mark,
    I would not do that inversion either: too much work in the state your car is now. (If somebody has the whole brake in pieces, including rear plates, then why not.)
    But as I told you, I had no problem in getting all air out, even with the nipples down.
    Lavaux/Wilfried
     
  13. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
    480
    #188 mfletch, Aug 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I was cleaning the area where the master cylinder/pedal assembly goes today, in preparation for installing the assembly. I discovered there are two metal plates that hold the pedal bellows in place. They were covered up by debris and the remains of the original rubber bellows that had melted/decomposed on top of them. I put penetrating oil on the eight screws that hold them in place and gave up for the day.

    I see why Wilfried (Lavaux) fabricated the leather boots to replace the rubber bellows. I am not sure if the bellows extend up or down, since mine were so deteriorated. I will be surprised if they don't rip during the installation. I had a difficult time removing the pedal/master cylinder assembly. I am really not looking forward to installing it.
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  14. lavaux

    lavaux Karting

    Jul 18, 2009
    124
    Cully, Switzerland
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    Wilfried Vogel
    #189 lavaux, Aug 24, 2010
    Hello Mark,
    To your question: the bellows must be installet upwards.
    The rubber bellows you show in the picture are differtent to the ones I got from a German Maserati specialist. The problem was that on the sheet metal level (i.e. where the rubber will be fixed to the body) the opening was only 2 inches long. This is (at least in my car) not enough: the travelling of the pedal rod plus the thickness of the rod are more than 2". Therefore the old rubber was torn out by the pedal when completely depressed.

    By the way, I found remounting the pedal assembly much easier than mounting, because I had been able to clean out all the rubbish that hide the lower nut.
    Wilfried/Lavaux
     
  15. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
    480
    #190 mfletch, Aug 24, 2010
    Hi Wilfried, thanks once again for your valuable insight. I would have guessed that the bellows went down. I'm glad that I asked. I am going to have the bolts and nuts so clean and well lubricated, that they want to jump back in place. Take care.
     
  16. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
    480
    #191 mfletch, Aug 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It didn't exactly jump back on, but it is installed. I owe my seventeen year old son....he is quite a bit more flexible than I am. It would have been a lot easier with the hood off and engine removed.
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  17. lavaux

    lavaux Karting

    Jul 18, 2009
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    Cully, Switzerland
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    Wilfried Vogel
    #192 lavaux, Aug 27, 2010
    Good, well done!
    By the way, I did not remove the hood, but removed only the brackets which fix the lower end of the two extensions (?) which keep the hood (or bonnet) open. Those two extensions are always in the way, so I held the hood open with a string to the ceiling of the room.
    Whilst you have access, why dont you treat the rusty sheetmetal below the brilliant cluch/brake assembly with some rustconverter? I paint the rusty surface with a milky sauce containing some phosphoric acid: once dry it becomes nicely black and shiny. Probably not very professional, but seems to work!
    You said "removing the engine"..... Have you checked the two rear engine mounts, those rubber/metal things? You can also change those without removing the engine. Just take the weight off them by lifting a bit the gearbox. And probably the oil filter. Then call your son and it will be easy for you...!
    Wilfried/Lavaux
     
  18. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
    480
    #193 mfletch, Aug 27, 2010
    Thanks Wilfried. I removed the hood support on the driver's side before I started on the master cylinder/pedal assembly. I can't imagine getting that out, with the support in place. I have a new can of POR 15 to treat the few spots with surface corrosion. When I replace the exhaust system (after the car can be driven), I will remove the exhaust manifold and either paint it or have it ceramic coated. It really looks terrible. While I still have the transmission out, I will check into replacing the engine mounts. I also plan on replacing the clutch, since it is accessable. Thanks again, Mark.
     
  19. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
    480
    #194 mfletch, Sep 3, 2010
    While removing the exhaust system (to ceramic coat the exhaust manifolds and have a new exhaust system fabricated), I ran into a little bit of a snag. Even though I put copious amount of penetrating oil on them, one of the exhaust flange bolts stripped. It is the one closest to the engine (of course) and the head is now rounded. The previous owner at some time had the bolts off the car. The two that came off were 14mm. The one that rounded is 13mm.

    Does anybody have advice on how to remove the bolt? Getting a drill or a hack saw to the problem will probably be a little difficult. Is there a tool that will grab onto a rounded bolt?
     
  20. DesertDawg

    DesertDawg Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #195 DesertDawg, Sep 3, 2010
    I've used Dremel tools with a whizzer disk attached, to cut either a straight-slot or Phillips pattern in stripped or broken screws/bolts in order to be able to remove them... don't know if that would work in your particular configuration, depending on how much access you have to that area - if it's tight, you might be able to use a flex arm to get the right angle.

    Another option would be an Easy-Out. Sometimes with these, you might need to use a helicoil thread afterwards.
     
  21. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
    480
    #196 mfletch, Sep 3, 2010
    DesertDawg, thanks for the information on the Dremel. I will see if there is a flexible arm available for mine, so I can cut a slot in the head. I might be able to get my Dremel tool to the nut on the bottom...maybe I can just cut the nut off with a cutting wheel.
     
  22. DesertDawg

    DesertDawg Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #197 DesertDawg, Sep 4, 2010
    If there's a Lowe's in your area, you might check them out... I know the one near me has a pretty wide range of Dremel accessories.
     
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  23. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
    480
    #198 mfletch, Sep 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    A bolt extractor cured my exhaust manifold problem. The manifolds are at the ceramic coaters. The exhaust system is at an exhaust fabrication shop, to be recreated in stainless steel. The gas tank is going to a radiator shop to have the sludge cleaned out. I can't believe the car actually started and ran (when I first brought it home) with the disgusting mixture that is in the tank. I'm really glad I used two fuel filters, prior to starting it. I'm also really glad that I did not try to start it again, since I rebuilt the Webers.
    I think it is time for me to invest in a pressure washer. I want to leave the original undercoating intact, but I need to give the underside a protective coating of POR 15, prior to reinstalling the exhaust and gas tank.
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  24. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #199 Ferraripilot, Sep 8, 2010
    Good work there! Keep it up
     
  25. DesertDawg

    DesertDawg Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #200 DesertDawg, Sep 8, 2010
    Good news on the bolt, Fletch... those headers look to be in pretty good shape, really. Great pics - I'll be following the thread. Good luck on all of it!
     
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