Poor man's P4 replica project

It has a p4 engine

 

0848 is a different car than 0846.
The Gurney bubble on J6 was not added by me but was added when it was thought to be the LeMans winning Foyt/Gurney car before my forensic investigation showed it to be the Donohue/McLaren car.

 

You describe the historic racing fraternity perfectly. But I race a car or two and I enjoy them for different reasons, It is sad, in part, that these wonderful old beauties are molested to make them quicker. However, if it weren't for the racing the interest in them would deminish. On balance I think we should take our hats off to these people who still relish racing proper cars, regardless of safety features, and entertain the crowds with much closer racing than their modern winged counterparts.

 

...as also explained in the article about your car in "Vintage Motorsports", where it also made the front cover. You rock Jim!

To repeat myself: I find this a highly fascinating thread. I admire Jim for his real deal car (which one day I hope to see in the metal), but I'm also interested in reading about the replicar P4, after all that'd be all I could ever afford.

P4Racer, I salute you for the Benetton. I only managed a ride in a '91 AGS so far.

 

Last year I went to Goodwood's Festival of Speed and couldn't agree more with your statement. That event was an eye opener for me. Call it love at first sight.

 

The trouble with replicas is they are generally worth only 50% of what you spent, if you intend not being married to it. If you are then the sky is the limit.

I am lucky that sponsorship has covered 70% of my car, but it has a hard life being thrashed then developed. But I suppose at the current rate of exchange about $200k to build a car that will keep up with the so called historics.

But as P4replica has told you that a car can be put on the street for as little as $45k.

I am lucky with the Benetton, in that the races are sponsored, an hours running cost more than $100k and so it takes huge funds just to get on the grid. thankfully we have had a year of podiums and finishing off with a win in torrential weather. So I hope that we can use hese results to get more sponsordhip for this season. I am sure the AGs was a blast

 

Here are a couple of pics of my car. Which I hope doesnt attract too much victriol.

Max
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I think I have answered this in other posts, to the point of being boring. But if you missed it then yes. the car that started as a noble is my moody P4,

My other car is the sister ship to JGs car.

 

Not trying to hijack the thread, but here it goes: Yes, the AGS was a blast. Drove it on the team's former test circuit in the South of France (Le Luc). Needless to say it was a lot better than its driver...

Your car looks stunning.

What are the physical dimensions (length, width) of a Noble P4 replicar?

 

Yep already answered

I was thinking yet again about this replica thing driving to work in the Sydney traffic, and I realise that where I live makes a huge difference to my perception. What I mean by this is that there are NO or very few events in Australia that I could run a 250 LM (or P4) replica hard against other replicas or real cars. Thus I come back to my point about what would you do with the car once the build fun has completed. Max, you have been extremely fortunate to be able to run your car in those awesome classic meetings that England and Europe have and that I guess has been a huge amount of fun and satisfaction ... I would not be able to get that same fun for one down here.

Australia does run classic meetings but the fields are very diverse and most that I have watched have been close to demonstration laps for single seaters anyway. Thus if I was actually allowed to enter (debatable if that would ever happen) I would probably only be racing against Alfa GTV's and MGB's and maybe a few 911 Porsches.

There is a guy in Queensland why owns a genuine GT40 and a Lola T70, and Philip Island once a year has a huge classic meeting that attracts many overseas cars, but I very much doubt a replica would be allowed to play at that meeting (anybody from Australia know the deal here?).

Quite honestly even if I owned a REAL P4 there would not be much to do with it down here, like there is in Europe.

One series that is growing and does race hard but fair (and respectful for the cars) is the Formula 5000 series. They even jump the Tasman sea and race against the Kiwis in NZ (and they have quite a few of these cars over there and they are very quick) thus for a Kiwi living in Australia the fun per buck would be huge if I could get hold of one of those beasts

Pete
EDIT: Maybe I should build a P4 rep. and promote a replica race series. Australia does build GT40s and the 917 replicas thus we could build a grid of those suckers ... now that would be a blast and I would have thought that the other replica builders would love to be able to use their cars properly ... plus the replica manufacturers surely would be keen to be involved as it would help sales!

 

Don't you guys (using that term loosely) have that shop in NZ that builds F40 replicars with some huge Toyota engines? Sounds to me, that you do in fact have some replicar culture. How are they doing btw, is anybody buying those? I remember the price tag was pretty big, like 100k or something.

 

Firstly I no longer live in NZ (havent for something like 7 years now) and thus have lost contact with the motorsport scene over there.

I have though heard of a single F40 replica that was built in NZ, that had Toyota power. Did not realise that they were making more.

A company in NZ also makes GT40 replicas and many other replicas are made over there ... and in classic car racing in NZ they will allow most replicas to race against real cars. Why?, because NZ motorsport was created by blokes creating home built specials ... which a replica is ...

BUT I have never seen a GT40 replica race, or that F40 race (but I think it was built after I left NZ). I have seen Cobra replicas race ... though.

I do not think though Australia has this scene as developed ... but I could be wrong (hence my question for somebody to tell me ).

Anyway there is no way I would build a replica just to putter about on highly policed public roads, or to simply track every now and then ... I need somebody to rub panels with

Pete

 

Im not sure what my dimensions are. I have two sets of wishbones, that change wheel base. Track is just about bang on the same as a P4.

I would guess at being 2" longer on wheelbase.

 

Welcome to the board!

In dimensions I meant what is the overall length and width of the car?

I have a particularly small parking spot, which makes this always the #1 decision maker/breaker.

 

Sorry, I have I think the very first P4 replica made by Lee Noble. It was a mock up for the production car, and the wishbones supplied put the wheels well forward in the arches, so we moved them back by adjusting the wishbones. The car is therefore the same dimensions as a regular noble p4 with about an extra 2" in length.

P4replica might know off the top of his head what the length of the car is, which is the essential measurement. Or look on nf autos web site.

 

I think that you'll find that Lee Noble's original 'Kitdeal' P4 replica (PRW 200R) that appeared in all the kit and specialist car magazines in '87 and '88 is alive and well, and living in Japan. Easy way to recognise this car is by the very lightweight round-tube chromed front wish-bones (which were changed to the heavier square tube in subsequent chassis). See below.

Kit Car magazine tested Neil Foreman's Noble P4 in their March '96 issue, and the quoted the dimensions as being 14' 2" long and 6' 1" wide (and 3' 4" tall).

 

So in an attempt to get the original post back on track the latest pics of my build are at

http://www.collinsclan.co.uk/Pages/Cars/P4/paintprep2/index.html

 

4 inches shorter than my 308, good, but 5 inches wider. Darn. Have to shelve this project for a long time.

 

Looking good

Pete

 

Something's wrong, Pete and I agree. And I'm willing to bet we would both like to have a P4.

 

Sorry, I have been away on sponsorship raising mission. My P4 is the same dimensions as P4Replicas.

If I have it in my London Lock up, I have to push it in and drag it out on a trolly jack. Really very irritating, but not as irritating as not having it. Not by a long way. Rebuild the garage, or angle grind away half the breeze blocks. Whatever you do, get the car going.

Currently we are trying to sort out some front end geometry work, and when it is complete I will post some pics. To the chap who said that he felt sorry for old cars having to compete with my car, ponder this. I dont believe theres one part on my car that wasnt available in about 1970, including the engine. Maybe thats not totally correct, but then again nor is any historic racing car...

 

Just to add some oil to the fires and for fun....
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I have been following this thread with great interest and as someone who is besotted by 60's - 70's Ferrari sports racing cars, am a little disturbed on a couple of points.
1. The above quote got me going a bit - how one can make a statement about availability in 1970 after posting - (Post 136) "The bodywork is made from carbon fibre, which is fairly race orientated" - without some credibility issues being raised?
2 Max, your car is obviously heaps of fun to build and drive, and I do not in any way wish to suggest that your skill and enthusiasm is anything but kosher - the difficulty I have is that the car is being represented as a Ferrari P4 Replica. From where I sit, nothing could be further from the truth. I do not consider a kit car based, carbon fibre clothed, Lanborghini engined, Hewland gearboxed vehicle, even with a fairly accurate representation of appearance and correct mirrors, could be classified as a P4 Replica.
3. I do not have a problem with Replicas running around in Historic Racing - in fact we had a couple of delightful ones at Philip Island last week - I just question what can reasonably desribed as a replica. Max, by any definition, I can't come to terms with your car being so described.
4. Obviously the organisers of the events where you run, do not share my opinion.
Enjoy your racing, but let's not pretend you have something of historical significance.
Forza Ferrari
John

 

Anyone who knows P4's knows that that one is quite real and what serial # it clothes.

 

Man I'm impressed. You must have done so much research that if you were shown a single rivet you would know which car it came from ... I guess I don't know **** when it comes to P4's as I wouldn't have a clue which car that rear comes from.

Pete