550 Spyder Replicas

sure this was not a 458?

 

Always fancied a 550 and this one. Built on 72T with 3.0, since I prefer rear drive over all wheel kit is only choice for 959 lover, perfect one would be a 964 late model with 959 body ;p

http://www.collectorcarsforsale.com/250666568188--porsche-959-best-replica-ever-track-car-scca-race-car/detailse.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250666568188&viewitem=

 

Sorry for the hi-jack, but does anyone know of any real ones for sale? What do they normally go for? (asking out of curiosity only)

 

Seeing as you're hijacking the thread to talk about real Porsches, it's a relief actually.

The most recent sale I know of was Stirling Moss buying an RS61 for $1.7 million. (And then he proceeded to bang it up at Monterey this year...)

There may be others, but I think you're looking at $750K to seven figures for any 550 that's not currently on fire.

 

I remember seeing an interview with Walter Röhrl. He was asked about the cars he prefers to drive and which ones he would love to own but doesn't. He stated that the one car he would really love to own was a Porsche 550 but that they were out of his price range. This is coming from a man who has a Carrera GT in his collection. That ought to tell you what you need to know about their price and availability.

BTW, one of my dreams is to build a 550 replica. I need to sell of a few cars to raise tthe money and free up the garage space first. I'm no purist. I think it would be cool to build it to run a Hyabusa engine. [flame suit on] The Hyabusa engines weigh about 175 lbs and they rev to 11,000 RPM, all while producing 99 lb/ft of torque and 175 HP. If you turbocharge them you can pump them up to over 400 hp if you desire. I would think 250 would be plenty for a car that weighs 1,400 lbs and the sound would raise the hair on the back of your neck.

 

IIRC, someone is building 550 replicas with a 300 bhp Subuaru WRX motor.

interesting re: Walter Rohrl. I imagine the cash is the limiting factor, not the availability, for a guy like him.

 

http://type550.com/

 

Great site, thanks for posting!

 

You might enjoy this. the first 550 had a pushrod motor!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5KlPtHcSPE

 

rollercrank pushrod engines in a spyder and plain bearing crankshafts in a 4cam carrera2...go figure.....note that the first spyder had leading trailing arms !!!!!

 

Hey! They used wooden internals in some cars too!

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=291578

 

HERESY!!

You can put a Subaru engine in a Super Beetle, but in a 550! Even if it is a replica, you dont put a water cooled engine in an air-cooled Porsche!

If anything, you build a 1915cc, or 2L stroker if you are brave.
Anything larger then an 1835cc in a 550 is bonkers fast.

The car would do 130 with a 1600. Thats pretty swift for a car of that vintage.




I would love a 550, but as I will never be able to afford a real one, I would have to get a replica, but after reading some comments about the replicas not capturing the true feel, now I am not so sure.

I would love a chance to drive either. The last 356 Speedster I built was a screamer with its 1915cc, but the 356 cant compare to the 550.

 

Except it isn't an "air-cooled Porsche". It's a plastic toy.

 

Its made to resemble a Porsche, and allow you to fool those who do not know better.

Still, my '71 Bug is more Porsche then the knock offs. At least Dr. Ferdinand had a hand in mine.

A pushrod motor that was built in Wolfsburg at the VW plant.

When an engine reached the end of final assembly in Wolfsburg, it was put on a dyno. Any engine that dynoed below the claimed output went into a VW. Any engine that dynoed above that output was sent to Stuttgart and placed in a Porsche.

That was procedure until the mid 1960's.

Besides the engine, early Porsches borrowed suspension components, brakes, transaxles, interior components (shifter, pedals, handbrake) from VW as well.

 

Say what? Mid 60's? Yes, you can put a 40 horse in a 356, and a 356 engine in a 63 bug, but they are different.

 

Just waiting for a chance to bring that thread back, weren'tcha.

_J

 

Few pictures of my favorite car...
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The pushrod flat fours used by Porsche were identical to the aircooled flat fours used by Volkswagen. Differences may include intake, and intake ports.
Porsche went to the dual port head before VW released it, Porsche ran dual 34ICT's to dual 40 Kadrons, while VW still used 30/31/32 Pict Solex carbs.
Porsche ran the Bosch mechanical advance 009 distributor, and 010 distributor while VW stuck with vacuum advance versions.

Only when Porsche developed the Twin Cam engine that engine components were made in Stuttgart.

On the 550 for example, the heads, crank, rods, pistons, oil pump, gears, diff, exhaust, chassis, and body were made by Porsche, or third parties.
The brake drums, king pins, torsion bars, trans axle, spring plates, trailing arms, parking brake, pedals, shifter, headlights, tail lights, signals, and engine case were made by Volkswagen in Wolfsburg.

This differs from the 356 only in the the heads and jugs were different to allow for the cheaper, more reliable pushrod engines to be used.

Keep in mind, Porsche was not exactly a money minter in the '60s. They were just getting started on the road they are on today. Seeing as how Ferry was willing to save some money on the street cars to do better with the race cars, (wooden internals and such).

 

Actually they're not identical. The crankcase halves and cover were different, and they had few components in common. Here's the complete list of major mechanical parts in common between a Porsche 356B and VW Beetle -- I don't have the part numbers:

Part/Qty

upper front trailing arm/2
lower front trailing arm/2
C-link left/1
C-link right/1
rear axle tube/2
seal/2
rear axle/2
torsion bar/2
trailing arm/2
bevel gear/1
housing/1
steering coupling/1
crankshaft gear/1
cam gear/5
blower wheel/1
cooler blower housing/1
blower cover/1
front engine sheet metal/1
rear engine sheet metal/1
distributor shaft/1

There were also bushings, washers and trim bits in common. Prior to 1955, the commonalities would have been more. But Porsches prior to 1955 are rare collectibles at this point.

There's no doubt the air-cooled flat fours have a family resemblance, but when you start actually buying parts to restore one (ask me how I know...) you're not shopping from the VW bin.

And as you said the Carrera engines are a whole different level of expertise and financial commitment.

Also, from what I can tell, Porsche was doing very well by the 1960s. They actually bought Reutter and had to contract with D'Ieteren (for later Roadsters) and Karmann to keep up with demand for coachwork. Final production figures for all 356s were close to 80,000 units, with more than 25,000 of those in the mid- to late 1950s. Those are actually good numbers for an expensive handmade sports car.

 

Hell yeah! Its mind-blowing!

 

Ah, thanks for that.

Well played.

Do you know when Porsche started casting their own heads, and cases?

I would like to get into the internals on one of the early engines, and check the casting marks. It is not hard to understand why the heads would get touched first, the single port heads on those 1100's suck, even the dual port heads can flow much better than they do. For Porsche to make any improvement for the 356, they would have had to remold, and recast the heads, or modify the stock ones. Making the modifcations to existing heads would have made the remolding process easier, and allow fine tuning.

If they did not have the capacity to cast their own heads, they would have had to use the VW heads.

Its not hard, they would have enlarged the valves, or at least re-cut, port and polish the runners, re-cut the combustion chamber (which they may not have even done), and beef up the valve train with hardened seats, stiffer springs, and higher ratio rocker arms.

All which could be produced on a quicker time table then head castings.

Same for the case. They would have modified the VW product to suit while ramping up production of their own castings.

Case mods would likely be better flowing oil passages, better baffles in the sump, metal was probably removed from the interior of the case, to lighten it, oil pressure regulator was replaced with a higher pressure unit, and the clearances for the roller crank would have been made, (if needed), and pushrods would have been replaces with stronger units.

The Porsche flat four was based on the VW flat four. Changed? Yes, it was improved.
But it was still based on the VW.


Ill go back and edit the "identical" to include "only on the outside".

 

So Bullfighter, what would I have to do if I wanted to build one of these for under $20k? Nothing gorgeous, something that will drive superb tho?

 

Buy a used Boxster.

First, it's just a really good car to drive.

Second, it will leave the plastic James Dean-wannabe toys in the dust, and when someone asks what you drive won't have to have to bore them with some lame story about how you worship a car you can't actually afford.

 

Sounds good to me.

 

Com'on Jon. That is a harsh write up.

Lets get sensible here.

Real 550 =
Mostly unobtainable to many.
Difficult to get correct parts.
Would be crazy to drive it to the cinema to go watch a movie.
Cant take it shopping.
As fast as many of today's sport hatchbacks.
Cant get comfortable having a tow truck hook up to it if it gets finicky.
Smolders your 401k as far as an investment.
Get to experience the look and feel of a icon.
Mostly get to say "...I have a real 550, but its in my garage at home..."
Who's going to fix it?

Replica 550 =
Obtainable by many.
Easy to find parts.
Take it to the movies! Heck put one in a movie - that's been done a lot!
Go shopping! Cant fit much but you know it will be fine when you come back to it in the lot.
Faster than many of today's sport hatchbacks.
Hook a tow rope to it for towing. Anywhere.
Buy one right & it will be worth what you paid for it later.
Get to experience the look and feel of a icon.
Mostly get to say "Thanks for the complement! Its a fun car, wanna take a drive in it!?"
Anyone with a metric spanner wrench can fix it.

I just can't see how a replica could bother anybody. Its just a big Tonka toy, so what? I luv toys.