Boroscope, beg, borrow or steal ! | FerrariChat

Boroscope, beg, borrow or steal !

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by yelcab, Sep 27, 2010.

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  1. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    13,673
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    My F355 headers are off on the bench, as far as the light can shine in, there are no cracks or leaks. But, I really need to stick a good boroscope up its inside to see for sure. Does someone in the Bay Area (from Campbell up to San Mateo) have access to a boroscope that I can borrow, beg, rent, steal from for a day? I can also bring them to your shop for a looksie.

    Thanks
     
  2. hotrod406

    hotrod406 Formula Junior

    Sep 18, 2007
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    Tim
    Remove the heat shields and look. They can always be welded back on.
     
  3. Raricar

    Raricar Karting

    Jun 17, 2010
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    Greenwood Village CO
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    Bill M
    Check out Home Depot tools for the video camera on a flex cable by Milwaukee
    M12 M-Spector AV
    Model # 2311-21 $399.00

    Just a thought
     
  4. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    Mar 18, 2007
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    Go to a smaller airport and trade an aircraft mechanic a future drive in the 355 for a look with the borescope.
    dave
     
  5. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
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    I have one. I live in Campbell and work in Sunnyvale. PM me and you can give it a shot.
     
  6. ndpendant

    ndpendant Formula Junior

    Jun 5, 2010
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    Paul
    I dont know if you like or use ebay but there are a TON of them there.
     
  7. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Brian, PM sent.

    Paul, i no longer do business with the evil bay and paypal.

    Dave, my neighbor the mechanic at San Carlos airport does not have a boroscope.

    Bill, I may try Home Depot if nothing else works.

    Tim, I thought that removing the heat shield is a one way street.
     
  8. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    I made and have a pressure test jig for the headers if all else fails.

    Wnt tell you how long they will last but will tell us if they are leaking.
     
  9. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    That is what I am going to do too, if all else fails. I think they are not leaking but want to be sure for peace of mind.
     
  10. mrpcar

    mrpcar Formula 3

    May 27, 2007
    1,114
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    Robin
    It's unlikely you will be able to see hairline cracks on the headers with a boroscope. Would recommend using a pressurized smoke test method.
     
  11. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    You mean I have to borrow a smoke machine too? Or, will smoking a cuban Montecristo cigar and blowing into the header do ?
     
  12. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

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    #12 jm3, Sep 28, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2010
    No offense, but I disagree. The shields are folded and welded, and rewelding them would be a butt weld which is not as secure in a heat cycled application.

    Plus, most of them are also tack welded extensively right around each smog port, and that would be hard to reproduce.

    I too have a borescope if you need one, but I would be worried it would not be good enough. The smoke test sounds good, and worth paying for.

    Jay
     
  13. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
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    #13 finnerty, Sep 28, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2010
    A "free", easy, and effective way to check for header leaks and small cracks is to plug off one side / end, fill the header with water, and let it sit for a few hours standing up on the plugged-off end ---- the water will weep through any cracks.

    If it passes that test, re-fill the header with hot water, and take a good heat gun or a propane (plumber's) blow torch and mildly heat the outside --- this, along with the hot water inside, will open up any micro-cracks and make them leak water.

    One of the simplest ways to check --- and it's very effective. It's easy to miss things (especially very small cracks) with a borescope --- don't waste your time.

    We used to do this "water test" with race car headers all the time --- helluva lot cheaper than sending them out to be x-rayed / magna-fluxed every week :)
     
  14. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Battery powered scopes on Amazon are about $99-140. Same as the ones in Home Depot, but no rechargeable batteries. Picture is so so, but good enough to find screws you dropped where you shouldn't have ;).

    Seach:Borescope
     
  15. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

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    #15 finnerty, Sep 28, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2010
    Of course, you will need to remove the heat shields to perform the "water test", though ;).
     
  16. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    I looked at one of the cheapies and the quality of the picture is not enough to do the job.
     
  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    I would not do a water test. i would just rig it up to do a leak-down test and see where it leaks and how much.
     
  18. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

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    I have an nwe expensive one, and I don't consider it good enough for the job either.
     
  19. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
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    If you have the proper equipment at your disposal, that (air pressure) works very well, too :)
     
  20. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    I have a Broncoscope for inspecting the inside of sinus cavities. Took a long time to convince the FDA it would not go anywhere other than in an engine before they would sign off on the purchase.

    That is too detailed a picture to look for cracks. One can see distortion in the pipes and then be able to predict a future failure but it is very time consuming. I am currently trying to find a leak in a set of Tubi 2.7 headers which they refuse to warranty.... makes one long for the days when Franc and Lou set the std. for customer service with that company, those days are gone.

    Pressure test to verify, borescope to locate.
     
  21. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
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    Amen to that.
     
  22. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Pressure tested last night, no leaks. But, I would still like to stick a probe up its innards before I slap the things back on. Visually, with what I can see from the ends, there are no crumbling crushed pipes.
     
  23. Raricar

    Raricar Karting

    Jun 17, 2010
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    Greenwood Village CO
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    I have been in the endoscope optics field for 20+ years and bore scopes come in a wide range of quality. As far as inspection applications go rigid scopes have excellent optical resolution how ever they are often shorter than needed and don't go around corners. Flex scopes are fine for going down a header or tube but because they use an image bundle these scopes are very costly in relationship to resolution. Bronchoscopes which are used to view down the bronchial system not the sinus are usually about 10 inches long and 9 to 12 mm in diameter mostly with a 90 degree view off axis. OK for looking down a spark plug holes. All of these medical devices require a fiber optic light source and cable to provide LOTS of light and ideally a video camera system which cost a fair amount even on the used market. Industrial bore scopes are another animal, their resolution is not as good and the light through put is much lower. They do however make some excellent flexible scopes and at a fraction of the cost of an Olympus endoscope (the best IMO). You might check out Titan Tool Supply in Buffalo NY titantoosupply.com. I supplied them with rigid industrial and medical grade scopes for many years and they are a first class operation. They offer several flex scopes some with their own light source and can be viewed directly. Using the eye cup on a rigid scope can create some odd body postures that being said the chip on a stick systems are very cost effective tools. Personally I have several scopes but seldom use them to check out my car.
     
  24. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    #24 davehelms, Sep 29, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
    ""usually about 10 inches long and 9 to 12 mm in diameter mostly with a 90 degree view off axis.""

    I ended with a 6 x 24" with slightly over 90 degree and then the light source. I had a 7 ft one that came out of the USAF but one of my employees decided to submerse it in antifreeze, an expensive lesson! One day I will get a new fiber optics shaft if I can ever find someone to fix it

    ""video camera system which cost a fair amount even on the used market.""

    True THAT! Now to find a monitor to put it all together as a package. Advise is gratefully accepted as I foind myself in the positions you mention often. A bitter pill making the purchase but one I have never regretted once in hand.

    To date the most valuable attachment has been the flexible forceps to run through the fiber optic shaft. Those new spring clips on the end of the plug extenders have a way of finding an empty spark plug hole. A number of cars have been towed in for exactly that.
     
  25. Raricar

    Raricar Karting

    Jun 17, 2010
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    Greenwood Village CO
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    Bill M
    Are you describing a flexible scope at 24 inches? As for repair there are several good shops that do flexible repairs, what brand of scope is it? If it is rigid scope with an operating channel it has rod lenses in it I can get that repaired for you if its not trashed i.e. lots of broken rods. If the fiber optic light fibers are damaged that is another story.
    In regard to the camera system I have used a digital camera on occasion to view through the eye cup, a low pixel camera works pretty good. In most cases the diopter is set about right for the camera to focus about a -1.5 or so. I have thought though never tried it but there are several small Video cameras for next to nothing on the market that might well work given the right coupling, most couplers use a small achromatic lens to focus the image on the chip.
    Don't break the forceps!
     

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