Help On Carbs | FerrariChat

Help On Carbs

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by 412monzaindy, May 15, 2010.

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  1. 412monzaindy

    412monzaindy Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    876
    Ontario Canada
    Full Name:
    PBI
    I just go my 512bb back from the major service. Virtually all the weak part of the 512BB have been addressed including the addition of he Newman Diff and all new SSI valves and after market AP clutch.

    I decided that I may as well have the carbs done.
    I am little irked because they didn't have time to install the MSD.

    They don't have anyone that is really capable of tuning the carbs. So I took it upon myself to help them out. It has probably been 18 years, so I am a little rusty.

    The runs OK starts good, pulls well but the idle is low @ 750 rpm. I noticed that it will load-up when you are at a stop light, the light goes green, as you pull away, the motor seems to stumble, If you use half throttle it will clear up and pull very well.

    I have not adjusted the air bleeds, but have left them all the way in.
    It may be on the rich side but there is not any black smoke during idle or during acceleration other than the typical with the multiple webers.

    My though are that the balance of the balance of the carbs may be out because it will pop when driving at low speeds. Or maybe the original ignition is weak.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. JoshECS

    JoshECS Formula Junior
    BANNED

    May 3, 2010
    433
    Ashburn,VA
    Full Name:
    Josh Hill
    The only way to correctly baseline the carbs is to disconnect the linkages so you can adjust them individually and then measure the CFM with a synchrometer at idle to make sure everything is even and adjust them up to the correct idle speed. I've always started with the idle mixture screws out 2 1/2 turns as a baseline idle mixture then adjust them slightly until all the cylinders create an even and balanced tone through the exhaust.
     
  3. Rock

    Rock Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2003
    1,652
    Toronto, Canada
    Full Name:
    Rocco
    pm sent
     
  4. 412monzaindy

    412monzaindy Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    876
    Ontario Canada
    Full Name:
    PBI
    Thanks.

    I will give it a go.
     
  5. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,159
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Change the emulsion tubes, the fuel formulation of todays fuels are not the same as they were when the car was new and in Europe. Some people will fatten the idle mixture to cover a transistion stumble rather than fatten the mains through emulsion tubes. If you change the tubes you can run leaner at idle to clean it up, have no stumble on transistion from the idle circut to the main circut and have all the power you want. I had to go from F36 to F24 tubes on my 308 to correct for todays fuels and I suggest that same approach to anyone with carbs.
     
  6. JTR

    JTR Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 26, 2005
    1,502
    in a house
    Full Name:
    John
  7. 412monzaindy

    412monzaindy Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    876
    Ontario Canada
    Full Name:
    PBI
    Thanks every one.

    I decided to start from scratch and disconnect all the linkages, use the 2.5 turns, reset the butterflies to equal positions. After a few minutes it all came back to me. smooth, smooth smooth.
    The results are 100% better.. The transition stumble is gone and it doesn't load up after any idling.

    I do have a plug miss at 5500 rpm. I also used the factory heat range but in an NKG plug. I think I will throw in another set.

    It is still a little rich, but much, much better.

    The next step will be to take the float setting recommendations and follow the procedure to the 'T'. Then I will look into the jetting and emulsion tubes as Newman suggested.

    In addition I have arranged to have the MSD installed.

    Thanks again.
     
  8. 412monzaindy

    412monzaindy Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    876
    Ontario Canada
    Full Name:
    PBI
    I can't seem to get a break.

    My wife says, were is the Ferrari, how much is it costing you now, why aren't you driving it, is that the car you really wanted, one that you can't drive, blah, blah, blah

    I shut the car off one day, let it sit for 30 minutes.

    I went for a short drive and the car has a real bad bog. It almost seem like it is out of fuel.

    I dropped it it off to the mechanic. With the help of Pierce manifolds we installed some new fuel pumps. It was real rich, so the next step was a pressure regulator.

    That corrected the richness but the bog is still there.

    Next step, check and replace more of the fuel lines, , check the and clean the fuel pick-up
    and check the fuel pressure ( 3.5 psi)

    Readjust and synch the carbs.

    These carbs were rebuilt and it ran fine for at least a month.

    Ran the tanks dry, new fuel, new plugs, another MSD, etc.

    I had the tops removed and I noticed the the amount of fuel in each bowl was different.
    All the needle valves are OK.
    If you push down on the floats you will notice that the amount of fuel in the bowl will cover the tab on the floats on some but on others it is down by 5 to 8 mm.

    I thought there should be more fuel in the bowls and it should be more equal.

    I measured the hight of the needle valve and they vary as much as .8 mm difference.

    I am leaning towards that the car is running out of fuel and the floats and needle valves are all wrong.

    I requested that they be sent back to the rebuilders to recheck the carbs for the proprer settings
    It has been in the shop for 2 weeks with no results.

    I ma trying to help as much as I can, but I am getting fed up.

    I want to drive this thing.
     
  9. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2004
    4,187
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Full Name:
    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day 412,

    Perhaps it is just me being tired, but I am a little confused by the above... At first you say:

    and then later you say

    So, are you saying that the car ran fine and then one day you had the issue? Please clarify, as if the car ran fine after the carb rebuild and now it doesn't, then I suspect that it is not the carbs... I would check the simple stuff first, like the distributor cap, carbon pin/spring, rotor, wires. In fact, I would also check that the distributor weights are not all gummed up, as this can cause problems too.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  10. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,159
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    If you had the booster venturies out to change the chokes its easy to put them in backwards and not know it. Double check them, you mentioned you were rusty so you couldve over looked that when you fiddled around with them after the service was completed. You said it ran fine after the service and now after changing parts yourself it doesnt anymore. The thread below says you changed a bunch of internal parts, double check the installation.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286994
     
  11. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,218
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    You sholdn't need a pressure reguator at all, if you have the proper fuel pump????

    I don't think the carbs like a real high delivery pressure....
     
  12. petearron

    petearron Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Jul 1, 2009
    687
    Las Vegas
    Full Name:
    jeff
    IMO the biggest issue overlooked is carb linkage synch,one or more carbs pulling un even then go to .55 idles for easier transition

    you can get fancy with a gas analyzer and check each exhaust port for HCs as there is a port for each cylinder to put a probe in, you can also check each header pipe with a infra red temp gun as they all should be close
     
  13. 412monzaindy

    412monzaindy Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    876
    Ontario Canada
    Full Name:
    PBI
    I reset the floats, they were way too high.
    Not only that, from what I am reading on F Chat the jetting is all wrong on the car.

    It has 185 AC jet with 135 mains. and f8 tubes., 32mm chokes.

    If you drive real easy and then get into it it will leave a smoke screen.
    But if you are driving on the back roads and always into it, the car runs great with very little
    richness.
     
  14. ital351

    ital351 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2006
    24
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    David
    A sweet way to set the float levels is when the car is running, fuel is flowing and vibration is taking place. Shims? Well, its nice to not need to bend the tabs of the floats, but chances are someone has already done it to your floats, a quick and slight bend is easy. These Float Gauges are great. They allow you to see the level without popping the top off the carb. Buy 2 of them to do one carb at a time. See the levels real time while idleling or revving the engine.

    http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911E/POR_911E_FULcrb_pg3.htm
     
  15. CarbBoxer

    CarbBoxer Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2008
    841
    Houston
    Full Name:
    PW
    How does that thing work?
     

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