Personally I think the biggest joke of them all was Toyota for the limited results they got out of that monstrous budget for so many years...
FYI, Porsche engines in McLaren chassis have one a total of 25 F1 races; 3 F1 WDC in 1984-85-86 and 2 F1 WCC in 1984-85.
But I am not even sure that Porsche can claim that. Although the engine were designed (by Henzler?) and built by Porsche, they were never badged as Porsche at the time, but as TAG engines. I believe the FIA record books show the cars as McLaren-TAG and not McLaren-Porsche. Porsche later tried crudly to use the design by mating 2 engines on a common block to form a V12, but heavy and cumbersome, the whole thing was a gigantic flop at the back of the Footwork, and Porsche quickly withdraw then.
There is just no room in F1 for so many manufacturers. Some are bound to be loosers. Toyota made the mistake of believing that you can buy success. It's better to wait when there is a niche of opportunity like Ford did in the 60s, when it commissioned the DFV from Cosworth because most designers were desparate to find a good engine available to put at the back of their chassis. Only BRM and Ferrari made their own, and not selling them. The Ford-Cosworth was the best investment ever made in motor racing!
The TAG engine was 100% Porsche save the badge. Certainly more a Porsche than the Cossie DFV was a Ford.
Given the excellence of their ubiquitous turbo 4, it'd be foolish for VW-Porsche-Audi to brand their entry into F1 Lite-Lite anything other than Audi.
I don't wish to argue that, but wasn't the name McLaren-TAG? I don't think Porsche can officially claim there titles. I am not sure. Ford in fact commissioned several engines from different engine builders, but Keith Duckworth came up with the goods first. Harry Weslake also designed a V12 engine for Ford at the same time, but it was not retained. It rebadged Weslake the next year and did one season at the back of Dan Gurney's F1 Eagle, before it became a 'Gurney-Eagle' engine on the cam covers. The same engine was later on rebadged ... Ford (!) and seen at the back of John Wyer's sleek Mirage coupe during Le Mans practice. He didn't like it and prefered to use the V8 Cosworth-designed Ford DFV instead!! Ha, the joys of badge-engineering ...
TAG and McLaren have been partners since the time we're discussing. They paid Porsche to design, build, develop and maintain the engines. As I remember the guys in the McL pits seeing after the motors were all employed by Stuttgart. As I remember the Weslake-Ford-Gurney arrangement was not as clear cut with ownership changing over time. IAC who you give credit to depends on if you value finance or technology more.
Richie Ginther was one of the most under-rated drivers in F1 history. He was a very interesting character as well, who lived a very full life. It's a damn shame that no one has written his biography. Interestingly, there was once a Ferrari team orders controversy involving Ginther way back in 1961. At the Monaco GP that year, Ginther was driving an experimental version (I believe it had a V6 with a lower center of gravity) of the 156 "sharknose" which was significantly quicker than the standard cars being driven by Phil Hill. Ginther follwed Hill around, reluctant to pass his team leader, while Moss got away in the Lotus. Once Ginther went past Hill he began to reel in Moss, but it was too late. Had Ginther passed his teammate sooner there's a good chance that he would have won the race, although catching Moss and passing Moss were two distinctly different propositions.
The Only VW brand that has any F-1 History - albeit very long time ago - is Bugatti. Although a 4cyl turbo Bugatti does not seem to make much sense marketing wise... perhaps if they do a small "mass" market car... I'm all for a Bugatti return!
This is great. They'll show up, get curb stomped by the perennials and then leave after three seasons.
Think so? As I am an Italiophile, Porsche has always been the "enemy", but I have never underrated them. Ask Enzo how the 1970 and 1971 endurance championships went... Ask McLaren how the 1973 and 1974 Can AM championships went...
Porsche has dominated in whatever level of racing it has ever competed in at the factory level, from sports cars, Le Mans to F1. Just as they did in the 1984-86 McLaren Tag-Porsche era, Porsche will come in to F1, win a few WCC and WDC and then, just as they did in the 1984-86 era, leave again due to lack of competition from the "perennials" at their level.
that's what Mercedes use to do , the world has moved on, although I believe you are right about their past achievements They wait until the opposition is at a weak point in time with development or whatever , pour huge money into specific areas of motorsport then waltz off saying they have nothing to prove which is a load of cobblers because they generally waltz off when they see the opposition getting stronger. Nowadays the upper echelon teams all have more than enough money to see interlopers off (see Mercedes this year) so Porsche achieving your scenario whilst possible is highly unlikely
Auto Union - yes, however they dont make any current cars... - effectively AUDI... To me politically in racing when you think Auto Union - I think Nazi... I'm just saying! Lamborgini - well, I think we all - especially Lamborgini want to forget about their F-1 Fiasco... Lambo and then the engines with the chrysler badge on them as well. Lotus Lamborgini... what a success!
You forgot about Indy, Teo Fabi. Porsche is unlikely to be successful in F1 against whatever power is used by teams like Ferrari, McLaren, and Red Bull. Although I could see them typing up with Redbull, yet coming in and winning from the start is just about impossible.
Modern F1 is not in any way comparable to F1 back then. The cost, effort and skill required to mount a credible effort is mind numbingly difficult today. Toyota couldn't do it. Honda couldn't do it. BMW couldn't do it. Mercedes is looking like it can't do it either. There's a large chasm between being in F1 as an engine supplier and being in F1 building all your own bits. Porsche, especially being owned by VW, will enter F1 and get their collective testicles kicked up into their sinuses and they will leave. Just like Jaguar did, just like Toyota did, just like BMW did and just like Honda did.
