If Alonso wins title shame on F1

That presumes other teams do it to.

If they did, either Webber, or Vettel, or Hamilton would be leading the WDC.

 

either you're illogical or I just don't get logic!! lol

 

This quote sums it up.

This thread= been done numerous times and lets move on.

 

Let me put it this way...

Some of you guys see what you want to see. A driver is told to save their engine and some assume that it was told to them purely to let someone else catch up. The McLaren example... Hamilton was on a fuel save mode anyway (proving that there is such a mode and it is necessary to use it during races). Button has a go and Hamilton defends... then Button goes on fuel save mode and that's that.

It is illogical to assume Button went on fuel save so that he would not pass Hamilton. If that were the intent, they could have just put him on that mode before he ever reached Hamilton. Furthermore, it is illogical to assume Button was put on fuel save so that he would not be able to catch Hamilton and have another go. It's just people seeing what they want to see.

The ultimate proof of there not being team orders at McLaren or Red Bull is because if there were, their drivers would be leading the WDC at the moment. For Red Bull especially, if team orders were implemented early, Vettel would be leading. If they were implemented more recently, Webber would be leading.

The claim that all teams use team orders but Ferrari were just more obvious isn't accurate nor likely nor plausible. It is, however, necessary for some folks to believe that to be true in order to give them a pass on cheating.

So long as Alonso wins by >7 points, everything will be OK. If he wins by less, then some have a valid gripe.

 

Good post and I can see your point.

But we know in the McLarens case that Button was told NOT to pass Lewis when he was obviously faster. The car to pit calls are recorded and Lewis asked the team if he should be worried about Button, and they replied that he will NOT pass you ... and Button never challenged again.

At about that point interestingly, Button's season started to unravel ... coincidence?


As for RedBull, nobody had told Mark ... thats all. Because they thought Vettel would easily beat him and thus team orders were not required. As it turns out Mark is fast and always has been, just sometimes irratic in races. Then publically they were forced into a we won't play team orders game ... and it looks like they really don't (now) because they are probably going to loose the WDC because of it.


Anyway which ever way you slice it, Ferrari cheated and got caught and were not punished for it. McLaren cheated and it cost them $100 million and I believe the chance to win the consolation price of the CC, and yet Ferraris cheat is probably going to win them the more important WDC ... yep FIA is still the Ferrari-IA.

And yes everybody cheats in many ways but the secret is to not get caught. Ferrari don't care and it appears they don't need to concern themselves with the rules.
Pete

 

Thanks Pete, I am glad you can at least see my point.

I realize everyone has their own view of things, and that people here are generally going to be very forgiving (to put it mildly) of Alonso and Ferrari, so I just hope Alonso either wins by more than 7 or doesn't win.

Believe it or not, I am actually starting to hope Webber wins. I never liked the guy - but it would really be a shame for Red Bull to lose the WDC considering how much better they have done with the car vs. the others and Vettel just hasn't had the luck this year.

I totally agree that everyone cheats.... no question McLaren cheated a few years back with the Ferrari data but it's interesting how Alonso was pretty much at the center of that and is now the golden boy for many, whereas many of those same folks still feel McLaren should have been bankrupted and disbanded and all their employees set on fire and then hacked to death with machetes

Except Dave of course, who acknowledges that Alonso is a bastard, but he is Ferraris bastard. A viewpoint I half agree with

 

Actually, Lewis not leading the championship right now, has nothing to do with McLaren using team orders or not. It has to do only with Hambone pulling stupid $#it 3 races in a row. Nobody cheated him in any way and he has only himself to blame for being behind at the moment. Same goes for red bull. Vettel apparently overdrove his car in more than one occasion and Webber just plain blew it last race.

SRTMike - your logic is absent as Button could pass Hamilton ad still start preserving fuel right after that. Looking after your car's tires, fuel and overdriving it is part of the package of being a good F1 driver. McLaren used the same team orders, but did not do it so blattantly as Ferrari. Is the Scuderia cocky? Yes, they are. But if you look at the big picture, what they did in Germany, as much as it pissed me off, may be better for the sport on the long run, as it started a chain reaction that hopefully would lead to the stupid rule being dropped. Maybe they knew that and did it on purpose. We would never know. And technically they did not ORDER Massa TO LET alonso by, if you really want to split hairs

I don't like Alonso. Never have and never will. But he would definitely be a deserving champion this year, even if he wins by a single point. And if he does, he would not owe anything to FIA, but just a big thanks to RedBull and Hambone, because they lost their own fights. No one needed to cheat them.


Ohhh....and I fully support the statement that this is just another sour grapes thread. Which is fine........but not on a Ferrari website.

 

This says it all.

 

Oh yea just like team orders ect ect. That makes it ok then
That Ferrari engine would have not lasted until mid season had the fia not allowed ferrari to break the rules. End of, or are you saying that no rules were broken just because its been done before?

 

if they were allowed to do it, then how is it breaking the rules? the fact that you know about it means it wasn't a secret!! and the wings, flexible or not, fell within specs...again, no cheating. wtf is wrong with you?

 

It may have had some thing to do with who the current Fia presedent is And thats my opinion if thats ok with you
Hey why so agresive? I know you have always been a poster that can have an argument with your self in an empty room, but man you need to get laid. Its only a chat forum. I have always known you as being a sarcastic cock, so its logical that its a waste of time telling you not to. Get out more fella, make friends.
Oh yes, and who mentioned the flexy wings huh? Not me. Man your loosing it

 

Not on this matter.

 

Of course they do. They just aren't as ham-handed.

 

Dem that are of a mind will find some justification to gripe.

 

Amazing on how much we agree
I want a red car to win (given my druthers Massa) if not I'd love to see Webber take it. If only to stick it to the team that has treated him so badly.
Now if it just wouldn't make the Aussies so happy

 

Shame!! It's racing.

As for your post, ever heard the saying :"The only man who makes no mistakes is the man who never does anything".

Its ok for anyone to have a point of view, Ferrari chat or not, thats what makes it a interesting forum, keep your red blinkers to yourself.

 

ummm....that was absurd...even by my standards!

 

Redbull will not lose because they followed the rules...they will lose because they didn't score the most points.

If you do what needs to be done, the WDC would not come down to a stewards decision.

 

The original poster - Manny, already said he was a Mclaren fan. He probably just joined and posted this to piss everyone off.

 

There are many on here who appreciate the Maclaren team and F1 in general. So i dont think that may be the reason.
Besides it does not take very much at all to piss anyone of on here anyway, you will see.

 

While I'm not rooting for them I have to respect Ron Dennis and McLaren.

 

my opinion...

Alonso is the best driver in F1 right now, and he has been the best driver since Schumacher left. Alonso won 2 WDC driving lesser cars, and against Schumacher/Braun/Ferrari running in F1.

Team orders are not cheating, they exists in all levels of motorsports, NASCAR, ALMS, LeMans, etc.

Despite the Ferrari not being the best car this year, Alonso's point standings reflect his superior driving maturity and talent to the rest of the field.

Hamilton, Vettel, Rosberg, Kubica, they are pretty fast but they make more mistakes. Webber and Button are just 2 lucky guys, because these 4 guys and Alonso have better driving skills.

 

This year maybe but in equal cars Lewis has beaten him.
Best is a nebulous word and everyone will mean something different when using it. The only definitive standard over a season is the championship. IMVHO whomever wins it is the "Best" driver.

 

Bloody Hell...

Hamilton won his championship because Timo Glock, not even a teammate, let him around at Brazil, so let's not have to endure chesty McLaren sycophants.

That said, Alonso, WDC or no, is a toxic presence and must be released from his contract with Ferrari.

 

I don't see anything wrong with team orders. The teams invest hundreds of millions and want to see the best result for them. If that means having one guy slow down so the other can get a WDC vs. having neither the WDC or WCC, than so be it.

If you don't want team orders, allow each team to run 1 car only. I wouldn't have an issue with that either.