RIPPED OFF ??? | FerrariChat

RIPPED OFF ???

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by lennyt69, Nov 14, 2010.

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  1. lennyt69

    lennyt69 Rookie

    Nov 13, 2010
    9
    Full Name:
    lenny
    #1 lennyt69, Nov 14, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
    I took my 2002 360 spider into a Ferrari repair and race shop in August when it was smoking white from one tailpipe and dripping condensation after a cold startup. I first looked up some posts on them, and despite the posts being a little over a year old, the shop had excellent reviews here on ferrai chat and other places
    Well, despite many unanswered phone calls and empty promises, the shop finally delivered it back Friday, 11/12/10...nearly 2 1/2 months later. (SORRY,I'm naming the shop now). Saturday morning i went out to start her up, and i noticed a few things that weren't right...there are bolts and screws missing inside the engine bay, wheel wells, and under the car. There are pieces that are loose, not lined up correctly, out of alignment, both inside the cockpit, and under the car, the right rear bumper isn't even fully tightened and its out of alignment by nearly an inch, steering wheel column bezel doen't have screws or isn't snapped together,etc...(You get the picture) I looked at the side of the car, which led me to a noticeble fresh scrape. upon further inspection, the whole underside of the car at the scrape location is bent, dented, with little shards of plastice hanging. So i'm thinking they must have had a little problem with the wrenches and whiskey thursday night assembling the car togother, after a little joy ride....not funny, but what are you gonna do? On top of it all, despite the original estimate of $5k plus a couple of hours to plug in sd-2 reader to diagnose the condensation/white smoke, check engine light, flashing slow down light on cold startup, and the famous F1 into nuetral when hot F1 360 syndrome,when i opened the invoice enveloppe sat morning, $12k ?? (i bought the car used and had a PPI performed by a Ferrari Dealer that told me sd-2 readout said i might need o/2 sensors and a clutch or clutch adjustment, which i explained to thesze guys and suggested they start there)
    I don't want to overeact, but I need some ideas about what to do. Thanks !BTW, the car now has 2 very fresh fluid leaks in and around the areas they were working. (one is a pretty good leak above right rear wheel well, the other is bottom right of engine with mismatched screws) .....DRUM ROLL PLEASE...Here's the good part...The odometer has 298 additional miles...298 miles !!! WHaaa??? What should I do besides stopping payment on credit card.
     
  2. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 27, 2005
    4,367
    VA
    I would post pictures and call a lawyer.
     
  3. alberto

    alberto Formula 3

    Aug 25, 2001
    2,404
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Alberto
    Yes to above, plus call the shop and tell them you will take the car to a reliable party and charge the first shop for any and all repairs related to their work.
     
  4. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    The shop owner would never forget my name if this happened to me.
     
  5. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    Indeed!!! In fact, he'd be waking up from nightmares about me for some time.....and, maybe even would require years of therapy ;)

    LENNY --- What fluid(s) is/are leaking?
     
  6. RapidEM

    RapidEM Karting

    Dec 18, 2008
    131
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Edward
    Go after the shop. What state are you located in? What is name of the shop?
     
  7. lennyt69

    lennyt69 Rookie

    Nov 13, 2010
    9
    Full Name:
    lenny
    Im new to forums in general, so i appreciate everyone's patience. I contacted a very reputable, highly respected expert Ferrari consultant who who has worked on a number of previous cases. I am expecting to further our discussions on Monday. I'm planning on trailering the car over there asap this week for a thorough inspection. I want to know a few things such as:
    did they even do the work they claimed?
    did they use new, used or refurbished parts?
    do they even have the experience they claim to have working on, in particular, my model Ferrari?
    Where did they exactly change, swap or replace to cover up anything?
    did they maybe disconnect or bypass something to disable the check engine of slow down?
    etc, etc.
     
  8. lennyt69

    lennyt69 Rookie

    Nov 13, 2010
    9
    Full Name:
    lenny
    Oh, if i'm not being a paranoid schizophrentic typical Ferrari owner ( LOL ), i'm gonna let the world know! Bet on that...I begged for phone calls and emails.
    M neighbor who has a 430 and 612 says the shop rents out exotiocs for $1500 a day @ 100 miles per day. He says they used to ask him to rent his out.
     
  9. Flatlander

    Flatlander Karting

    Aug 21, 2008
    92
    Middle of nowhere.
    Full Name:
    Rich Struck
    298 miles? wtf? I could see some for a test drive but 298? Something is very, very wrong here. Sounds like someone borrowed it for a weekend.
     
  10. Frari

    Frari Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,194
    brisbane australia
    Full Name:
    tony
    IMO. you need to talk to the business owner, tell him your issues, in particular the miles which is absolutely disgusting and a case for sueing his arse regardless of poor work quality. Offer him the opportunity to rectify at a reduced invoice on the proviso that you are allowed to have an indepedant inspection after the work and new repairs are completed to ensure it has been done competently and if he does not comply, advise him you are taking it to the world of pain.
     
  11. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 25, 2007
    5,792
    Boca Raton, FL
    Full Name:
    Mr. Anderson
    Attorney for sure. Call and tell them what you plan to do, give them a chance to respond then bring in the lawyer.

    That stinks. I feel for you. Good luck.
     
  12. lennyt69

    lennyt69 Rookie

    Nov 13, 2010
    9
    Full Name:
    lenny
    think about it for a sec...i dont trust these guys as far as i can throw my 300 pound wife, (kidding)...no way am i gonna let him ever BREATH on my car, let alone touch it, again! He totally screwed me...what about loss of use? and if they rent it out for $1500 a day, does that mean they potentially made another $4500 off mine?
    One day when i was begging the mechanic for my car, he mentioned he had been driving it home...WTF !! I'm like...don't ever do that again. It that common place in the world of exotics?? Maybe that was a ploy to cover up rental use of my car??? I don't know...i cant let it bother me,...but i am for certain for this...i watch too many people take advantage of other people in business...i always tend to make nice-nice...not this time. I'm gonna get inspection, consult lawyer friend, then give shop one time explanation, then retain lawyer, then repair...it's not as if i dont have anything to do...hahh
     
  13. JM4re

    JM4re Formula 3

    Aug 21, 2006
    1,022
    Nothingcouldbefiner
    Full Name:
    JPM
    Lenny, this is really an incredible story.
    What's the shop? Why didn't you take it to a dealer for work in the first place if you were gravely concerned about professionals doing good work?
    You say you'd been combing through 360 threads for a while, but you just joined yesterday?
    You let them keep it for 2.5 months for relatively "routine" service? Hmm, naive at best, probably worse though.
    Mechanic told you he was driving your car home?
    They rent out customers' cars as per-day rentals and suddenly your car has ~300 unexplained miles. You didn't bother to ask why?
    You were told service would be $5k, and took delivery of the car after a surprise $12k bill?

    As I say, this is really an incredible story. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Frari

    Frari Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,194
    brisbane australia
    Full Name:
    tony
    Make sure you write down what your mechanic said. ie date time of conversation what was said. NO WAY would any mechanic drive a car for more than a few miles and that would be as a test drive only. The risk to the shop and cost of insurance to work shops prohibits this type of activity. You may also find that they have no insurance to cover your damage if it was done "driving the car home".
    These fellows sound like they are having a lend of you. I would say they have rented your car out a copule of times. I still think you need to talk to the business owner, tell him your concerns, allow him to rectify ( if they have come recommended on this forum as you say then they must do reasonable work as recommendations are hard to gain) he has every right to rectify if he is qualified. It may not be to his knowledge, he may have a rogue employee. He has to be given the opportunity to answer the claims. My 2c worth
     
  15. curtis13

    curtis13 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2010
    35
    Destin fl
    Full Name:
    Curtis
    Sounds to me the shop sucks and you already paid the bill. I feel it is partially ur fault for not inspecting the car first and allowing them to keep ur car for over 2 months.

    That's the non candy coated truth.

    I would now first address the owner on the business and relay ur concerns. Don't enter with a foul attitude because that will get u no where fast. (I'm hot headed and have learned my leassons). If he relsults with an attitude I would step it up a notch.

    U have accepted the car from the service facility and they have rebuttal as well

    They can reply in many different ways. But at the end if the day u just want ur car right.

    U have one if two options. Try to let them fix the screw ups or dispute the transaction.

    A judge will ask u if u gave them a chance to fix it. If u reply no and your first action was to dispute the charge that will not go over so well.

    Do u have copies if what u signed if so read them carefully before u make any rash decisions

    I was a deputy for a long time and from my experience judges look for "reasonable" decisions on both parties

    Good luck
    Curtis
     
  16. lennyt69

    lennyt69 Rookie

    Nov 13, 2010
    9
    Full Name:
    lenny
    Gravely concerned??? Thats pretty funny...I expected nothing more than a job well done. The "mechanic" i found out after screaming at him for 20 minutes about his work ethic, is the owner. When the car was finally ready, i was out of town, trhey asked if i wanted delivery, i said yes...wife handled. got home late ...hit garage button, looked, went to bed, got up wife handed me invoice, opened, "SHOCK AND AWE". Today, when my neighbor finally showed after me ringing him yesterday is when i found out they rented cars...I'm not an idiot, i knew it would be more than $5k, may $6k, not possibly much more. I have everything in writing...they aren't open today or yesterday to inquire about the mileage.

    20% of the people "registered" on here never post. I didn't need to post. Yes incredible story...but true. I travel, I'm busy, I work hard. At first you tend to believe what people tell you about why they are late. after a while you start doubting...even the doubters begin doubting.

    You assumed quite a bit mr Rolleyes...and you know what happens when YOU ASS/U/me.
     
  17. lennyt69

    lennyt69 Rookie

    Nov 13, 2010
    9
    Full Name:
    lenny
    thanks chris
     
  18. lennyt69

    lennyt69 Rookie

    Nov 13, 2010
    9
    Full Name:
    lenny
    #18 lennyt69, Nov 14, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
    thanks Frari...ps the mechanic is an owner


    AND BTW...UNTIL I GET THE CAR INSPECTED< I WILL NOT DIVULGE THE NAME> but i can tell you, the some of the recommendations are friends, which is fine, thats business, but I have to decide...am i willing to allow this mechanic, whos the owner. to get his hands on my car again?? to rectify...NO WAY...but i will be posting pictures and emails...everyone needs to know about these guys! Its FAIR and HONEST...I am always accountable if the computers my company sells are bad, or if an apartment building colapses that my company built...there is no excuse for this type of incompetance.
     
  19. JM4re

    JM4re Formula 3

    Aug 21, 2006
    1,022
    Nothingcouldbefiner
    Full Name:
    JPM
    #19 JM4re, Nov 14, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
    Screaming for 20 minutes bodes well for chances of recuperation. I was making the point that you took it to an independent shop (guy with a big garage) instead of a dealer for a reason...and that was?...to save money? (Assumption, oops)

    That was probably a mistake. No physical presence of your own to inspect the work ( the 2 and a half month work) being delivered and then considered a closed matter upon receipt. Just sayin'

    No explanation will justify that mileage. None. That is use of your vehicle -- pure and simple. If they do in fact rent other customers' Fcars at 1,500/day @ 100miles/day you should have bare minimum 4,500 coming back your way from that alone.
    My point here was that you weren't even registered until yesterday. And again, what shop is it? You said in your first post that you would be naming it.


    I've never heard that quip before in my life. Not ever.
     
  20. lennyt69

    lennyt69 Rookie

    Nov 13, 2010
    9
    Full Name:
    lenny



    I hope you enjoyed then !

    i meant to say, i WONT divulge the name...i just re-read that...sorry...

    im just very frustrated and want to make the right decision. It wasn't that high on my priority list at the time, i had it sitting for almost 3 years with only about 1k miles, the corvette was at the dealer getting steering column recall(i know incredible both cars broke), so i decided to take ferrari to work. The only reason i took it there, was because a neighbor of mine was one of the owners and he had been telling me to take it there some day, my next door neighbor took his ferraris there as well, I had the number in my phone from one party or another, called and they said bring it straight to us...so i went there. Found out later, he doesn't own anymore...go figure.

    The kind of inspection i did saturday morning, i have never done before for any car...I wouldn't even had given it a second look. BTW...another incredible story...when i picked up the corvette for the steering column lock recall...the mechanic did not hook up the horn...lol

    There's no way this is my fault...they were always waiting for a part from ferrrari on backorder (very typical in my line of work)...my first experience with ferrari.
     
  21. SRobertMaser

    SRobertMaser Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 8, 2010
    46
    someone repossessed
    Full Name:
    my 550
    This whole thing sounds like BS.

    What an incredible story for sure. LOL.
     
  22. FF8929

    FF8929 Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2008
    799
    Livonia, Michigan
    Full Name:
    Fred Flynn
    #22 FF8929, Nov 14, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
    Maybe B.S., maybe not. We do get that sort of thing here sometimes. BUT, maybe it's another sad story.

    Lenny, slow deep breaths. It's not Cancer. Remember where your best interests lie. Yes you want blood, I would too. Well, you're not going to get blood. Best you can hope for is an acceptable level of satisfaction. First, you have to approach the shop owner, in a civil manner. Present your case. Don't argue right away. Give him some time to investigate. You can always sue, etc. later. My lawyer once told me that the legal profession makes a whole lot of money when people let "the principle" of the case interfere. Lawyers ain't cheap. It could well cost you more to try to punish the guilty, than to have the car re-fixed. Good luck.
     
  23. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    #23 2NA, Nov 14, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
    Welcome to FerrariChat.

    First, complete your profile so we know a little more about you and where you are.

    Let's see some photos of the car. Show us the damage, perhaps a copy of the invoice.

    IF your story is real you have been mistreated by a repair shop and you are unfortunately not the first one. We frequently get this kind of story from newbies and in almost every case it turns out to be BS. Excuse our skepticism, if you're for real there are folks here that can help but we need more information. Otherwise your story is just a story.
     
  24. MaterMech

    MaterMech Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2007
    476
    Los Gatos CA
    Full Name:
    Mark Johnson
    Print out this thread and let him read it before attempting to talk which will surely turn into arguing. Two laws with regard to securing customer consent were broken. In California if you need to increase the estimate you must call the customer for verbal approval and then note the date, time, #, and agreed upon amount on the original signed estimate. If this was never done then you are not liable for more than what you signed the estimate for. Secondly the same rules would apply if the mechanic needed to drive the car for a couple of days to diagnose something.

    Best of Luck
     
  25. mousecatcher

    mousecatcher Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2007
    2,116
    san mateo, ca
    Typical stupid post.

    There's no need to post at all if you aren't planning to name the shop and warn us. You certainly don't need advice about what to do. Burn 'em down.
     

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