What should I offer 09 Scud 1k miles

I don't know where they get these numbers either but if this is any help, Sept 30 I sold a 09 F430 F1, well but not overly appointed with approx 2,500 miles. The car was fully serviced and all campaigns completed. There were no stories or issues. The price was approx what you suggest should be offered for an 09 Scud.

My opinion-you'll not get a solid Scud (at least without stories, issues or someone in financial distress) for anywhere near $185k.

If you really want a solid, low mileage, well appointed Scud....get real on price. I'd say $210k is the low side of the true market.

 

Just an observation from someone who spends a lot of time analyzing asset values. It's an economic axiom that sellers that are not selling have asks that are too high, but it's also true that buyers that don't have accepted bids are too low. Somewhere between lies the market price. If someone asks, "what should I offer to transact this sale?", the unstated condition is TODAY otherwise the requester needs to state his timeframe. Since it's generally accepted that modern Ferraris decline in value; it's a no brainer to take a downward trend and make a value statement that $x (below market) is the "right" price. At SOME POINT $x will be right; but that only states the obvious that the market is declining. Duh!

If you really want cred for knowing the market, you need to state a price that, as likely as not, results in a closed transaction within days or weeks of the request, not months or seasons or years. Otherwise, all you're doing is "predicting" the trend, which everyone already knows.

 

$150K may be low but $190K is not that far off. Using your +/- $200K then $190K is 95% of your $200K number. That's fairly close. A sale by private owner is not unreasonable near $190K.

 

+1 Everybody thinks that you can get an 09' scud for under 200k. Good luck with that! The truth is that a clean scud 08 or 09 with no stories and low mileage (under 5k) will go over 200k. Look at the regular 08' 430 prices. mid 170s-180k. Offering and getting it are two deferent things.

 

What dealers are willing to pay is your low price. You'd be surprised just how low that is. A few phone calls will determine where that is and you can add to that about $10K or you may get lucky and find a private party that's happy getting at least wholesale for a hassle free transaction.

 

Unlike the assets you're pricing, Scuds don't have an expected cash flow, you can't price them on a yield curve, and they don't have an expected maturity date. You can't even buy a put option on a Scud. Oh wait, you can buy a put option by leasing it.

 

I would suggest to be a straight shooter when it comes to price negotiations. Do your research before making an offer. If you offered the guy $185k and he declined, ask him what the lowest he is willing to go. This doesn't have to be over analyzed.

 

Offering $150k for this car is pretty much an insult. Imagine giving that offer to someone face to face. It's a buyers' market, but this is just low balling.

 

Income analysis is not necessary, demand vs supply is enough. But the fallacy I was pointing out is that when a transaction DOESN'T take place, the market price is typically NOT at the offer (NOR is it at the ask). Yet many kibitzers take the last outlier price and apply it as the median and then take 90-95% of that and that's the "market" price. This seems to be irregardless of model, Scud, 430, 360, whatever. And since that's the accepted wisdom of the buyer's peers, the buyer will never offer more than that at the risk of feeling like he overpaid. Unfortunately, he still doesn't have the car. Of course he can eventually buy the car months later or next year at his price, but that only means the market price declined to his threshold price. That's assuming of course the buyer keeps his threshold price flat, I suspect more than a few buyers lower their threshold multiple times during this process, looking for that bargain, and never buy.

As an example, if a buyer knows it's declining, why advise him to go as high as $150K, have him offer $100K or even $50K. After all it's going to get there eventually right? Anything more is overpaying isn't it? Of course that's ridiculous and that's the point.

 

Good analysis

 

1. Mention you're a qualified buyer, past Ferrari owner, etc...
2. I like to be upfront on how I'm paying for the car
3. Then I ask "what is your lowest, non-negotiable price for this car?"
4. If you like the price, say great, deal contingent on PPI, books, tools, records, etc..
5. Anything missing or out of line, price gets adjusted

Game theory and the used car salesman playbook is for other types of cars. Seriously, who has time? Enzo mentioned the 3 types of buyers in his memoirs. Sometimes dealers think they are always talking to the third type of buyer: The person whose knowledge and concern extend only to the color and options of the car. Enthusiasts that purchase using phone and internet are often not qualified properly by dealers so they mistake you for the 1st time buyer.

 

Continental AutoSports has a '09 Scud for 204. I bet you they'll take under 200 to get it off the floor.

Great color, reasonable mileage, too:
http://continentalautosports.com/inventory/details.aspx?id=NLIL0091.1/C168979&y=2009&d=Ferrari&m=F430%20SCUDERIA&tr=

 

The chase can be exciting! I'm sure you'll find the right car and the right seller, I'll keep an eye out for you as well. Have fun!!

 

Perfectly said

 

Please post if/when you do find a car..You've got me thinking about selling my CS and getting a Scuderia..shhhh...I've long defended the CS as the ultimate Ferrari...

 

What I find very funny (more than Conan) is alleged buyers trying to push the prices down as much as possible, these days more than ever. Hence my suggestion to offer $150k (too much indeed, offer $90k instead). As days go by, these cars are getting cheaper, the longer you wait the cheaper they get.

It makes me remember when I sold my 2007 GT3 RS under $100k back in 2008, and everybody was using my sub-$100k as the new reference price. Well, almost 3 years later there is a new GT3 RS, and an incoming even stronger/lighter GT3 RS (rumored RSR or LE) in a few months, and still the 2007 GT3 RS is moving above $100k.

Half of the posts in this forum start with "What's a fair price for this car?", "do you know this car?", "can you check this car for me?", "can I afford this car?", "how much for maintenance?". For me, the $303k MSRP on my 2009 Scuderia was a bargain. I could have bought a F430 for half the price, but to make it perform as well as the Scuderia, it would have exceeded $150k on parts and labor.

I think the Scuderia was priced just right at $300k. Not long ago people were paying close to that number for 2-3 years old floppy Spiders.

I have driven many cars, friends, students, my own, and this car is blistering amazing. There is simply no car in the market with over 500 Hp and less than 3,000 lbs of weight, with the dynamic balance of the Scuderia. However, very few owners can get to appreciate the performance potential of this car, my guess is no more than 20 owners nationwide. Nothing wrong with not having enough driving skills to enjoy the limits of the Scuderia, but if the skill set is not there, a regular F430 or F458 makes more sense to me.

Buying a Scuderia as a daily driver, or weekend cruiser is a waste but I respect people's own choices. I think there are better cars for such purpose, MB SL55, 997 Turbo, Panamera, etc.

I hope the incoming MP4-12C outperforms the F458 and 430 Scuderia badly, so Ferrari really pushes the envelope with the F458 Corsa/Hardcode version. Ferrari left a lot performance potential left on the table with the Scuderia, and they did a really bad job with the F458 Italia (400 lbs of extra weight, lame).

In the meantime, and despite of what Ferrari says on the advertised lap times around Fiorano, the fastest cars around a racetrack from Ferrari are the Enzo and the Scuderia (properly setup in both cases), the F458 and 599 GTO don't stand a chance at a road course against these two.

 

Not only did they loose at least $23k in a sale, I'll bet your opinion of them lessened and you'lllnot make them your first choice next time when you go to buy.

 

You are 100% correct. I years prior, I bought a 04 spider from them without questioning price.

I understand dealers are there to make money and I have never purchased any of my ferraris from a private owner because I want to "security" of knowing who I'm dealing with. But I think many of the dealers should take a lesson in business. Holding on to a modern Ferrari is not like holding real estate and waiting for the market to turn. They obviously k ow the Ferrari market but maybe they fail to understand the external factors that affect price, like an ever changing economy or a new latest and greatest from another maker.

Scott, trust me when I tell you that compromising on a product right now to save $10k is not what you should do. I said it earlier in this thread that 190-200 is the range. Maybe a couple of bucks more. At 200, most of the scuds you're looking at have therefore depreciated about 35% from sticker in a year or so. So fluctuating $5k or $10k isn't the worst position to put yourself in. I understand further depreciation is inevitable. As we have learned in life, everything around us depreciates these days. Even real estate! And, more importantly, seeing friends and family around us who never got a chance to fulfill a dream or goal because they died at 45 is becoming seemingly more prevalent.

Try not to live with the "it will be cheaper next week" crowd. They tend to never buy a car and instead are always left talking about them...

 

+1 on everything you said. I found the Scuderia to be the best and most satisfying Ferrari that I ever owned. Better than the CS and 599. That is why I'm looking to buy another one. I never complained about the $300K price tag. I saw a regular 430 coupe loaded with practically every option and sticker in the high $270K range. The Scuderia seemed like a bargain. One last comment about alleged buyers trying to drive the price down. Dealers do the opposite. They post on FC that everyone is nuts trying to low ball the pricing on the Scuderia. Maybe they are defending higher prices because they are sitting with Scuderias on their floor that they can't sell at their elevated asking prices?

 

Napolis is spot on with the estimates of wholesale. Manheim shows that on 8/26/2010 a red 2008 scud coupe sold for 177,000 with 4237 on the odo. Condition listed as average. car was a lease return. auction was in riverside california.

Based on what I know about auctions, this price is slightly higher than what dealers would trade the car. Excitement of bidding at an auction (on a ferrari) can get the best of some people.

 

Keep in mind the following.

At the end Scuds were selling below msrp.

I bought a new one for 265K.

There are a LOT of Scuds for sale right now.

The idea that any bid is an insult is silly.

Also remember than a car that has sat for 6 months unsold is a car that is rotting.

Any fuel in it has broken down, it's oil is separated, it's brake fluid is coagulating, rust and corrosion are having a feast, it's tires are flatspotting, it's battery...

 

You had a great deal at the time (so did I, I thought,when I paid MSRP when they came out).
Today, there is a brand new (79 miles), '08 at local dealer with asking $229k (MSRP way over $300K).