To Sylvian (and other people interested in this topic) : you should read or re-read this article, which proves physical evidence that there are several F50 wearing s/n 99999 (at least two but possibly till 4) : http://ferraris-online.com/pages/article.php?reqart=SCM_200705_SS All the best Olivier
The different door lock numbers are interesting as are other reports but the Guernsey plate number is less so to me as I've seen documents that indicate that JS's 9999 was involved with someone who lived there. Best
True. Here is what the article says that is specifically interesting: "For example, he spotted two F50s in Mugello on the same day, both with s/n 99999. One carried factory plates Prova MO2112 while the second had Prova MO2268. He was unable to get the door lock numbers. Other notes showed the F50 with Guernsey plates (door lock number 325) also had the top of the windshield tinted, and it had a type shield behind the steering wheel, while the three other s/n 99999 F50s did not. The Guernsey car had a chassis plate on the steering column; the Swaters car did not. Ad infinitum... Adding yet another dimension to the madness, there were also a total of seven pre–production or prototype F50s built, those being 95592, 98170, 99999 x 4, 100825, 101919, 102474, 102813 and 102816." Perhaps the aforementioned 'spotter' is someone with credibility, whose documentation of the various sightings took the form of photographs? Whilst I agree that we must remain open-minded that there is only one 99999, given the detailed information that has been recorded by those who normally record this type of information, its hard to conclude that there is just a lone car, and dismiss the writer's story as simply being wrong. This begs the question: what does the writer, or anyone else for that matter, really care one way or another? I see this as a matter of historians simply reporting what they've seen. Then there is Ferrari's propensity to do this type of thing, and there the answer has to be, "its certainly possible". Personally I find this type of debate healthy, and good for the community and for the cars, and even if there is more than one 99999 car (say 2 or even 4), its still a rare thing!!
By the way, I don't see why anyone should flap their wings over more than one car having the same chassis number so far as it was caused by the factory itself, they can be separately identified, and its not a case of impersonation and/or fraudulent misrepresentation. That's my position anyway..
Well-worthy of a re-read, indeed ... Noticed the text states that the Guernsey car wears plate 17404, yet the image shown of the Swaters car (which the text claims to be a different car) also wears plate 17404. The article also notes that the Swaters car doesn't have a chassis plate on the steering column, which it does ...
Totally True. The only issue might be with DMV/Customs. In the case of 10523 it's not an issue as they are totally different models and configurations. If there are several F50's with the same vin number it could be an issue with DMV/Customs.
This is what RM has to say about it: "While the release of the F50 series was a landmark event, the example offered here, chassis 99999, is particularly significant. First of all, it marks the end of an era, as it is the last Ferrari to be assigned a five-digit chassis number. It also served as a show car for Ferrari and was displayed at some of the most prestigious motor shows when the F50 was first introduced to the world. First shown at Geneva in March 1995, chassis 99999 appeared at such venues as the Tokyo Motor Show, the Forza Ferrari Meet at Suzuka, and Ferrari Days at Spa-Francorchamps, as well as a showing to Ferrari clients at Fiorano, followed by an appearance at the Tutte le Ferrari meeting, held at Mugello. As might be expected, these Ferrari supercars were sold new to the companys most important and discerning clients. Following its high-profile show career, chassis 99999 was sold to Ferrari dealer Jacques Swaters Garage Francorchamps SA, which is located in Zaventem, near Brussels, Belgium. Mr. Swaters, a close personal friend of Enzo Ferraris and long-standing principal of the highly successful Ecurie Francorchamps racing team, is known to have retained 99999 at least until 2006. In late October of that year, the car was advertised for sale in the Ferrari Market Letter. It was sold to the United States, and in August 2008, the F50 was displayed at Quail Lodge in Carmel, California. Under the current owner, the F50 was federalized by G & K in Irvine, California, carefully maintained and sparingly driven. Today, the odometer shows fewer than 900 miles. It recently received a full mechanical inspection, the fuel bladder was replaced, and new tires were installed. As offered today, the car is virtually perfect, fully serviced and complete with a dossier of documents including Ferrari Classiche certification. The condition of this F50 will satisfy the most demanding collector of high performance automobiles and ensures that it will be able to provide all the remarkable performance for which enthusiasts everywhere revere these exceedingly rare supercars. A halo car in the purest sense, it offers a driving experience unlike any other at once nimble, exhilarating and unapologetically aggressive. Please note, this F50 is presently registered in the Guernsey, Channel Islands and is offered with a Bill of Sale pending a title application with the California Department of Motor Vehicles." It looks like al your stories fit together and this car did a lot of traveling... natant Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
"presently registered in the Guernsey" (RM) How is it in the US? Under temporary import? Is US 2.5% due if it stays in the US? "offered with a Bill of Sale pending a title application with the California Department of Motor Vehicles." (RM) "converted to US specs and certified for 49 states. All but California" (Poster here not RM) If true how can it get a Calif. Title?
Hello everyone, I thought you might be interested by the information I'd like to bring to your attention. I brokered the sale of this car #99999 about 3 years ago from Jacques Swaters' estate to a US dealer. The car went to Hawaii. At that time, the aforementionned article was published stating that several cars bear the same number. I have written a circumstantial letter to the author telling him that the content of the article is incorrect and I have never been proven wrong. The F50 in the Galleria (a car that is not functional I was told) did bear that number on a plate at some stage, but it was applied for show purposes and the plate has been removed since at the request of Mr Swaters. Moreover, and most importantly, no one was EVER able to prove anything or show any picture of any other 99999. I have taken pictures of this car from every possible angle, including of the locks (number 325), the VIN number stamped in the chassis and the plates in the engine bay (ZFFTA46B000099999), and the assembly number (19445). A check of VIN 99999 on MODIS ( Ferrari's internal information network and database) will show that there is only one such car, which is the Swaters car, delivered to Garage Francorchamps (Jacques Swaters'company) on 30 January 1998. I have a printout of this as well. I personally drove 99999 and loaded it into the truck headed for the airport. Now if anyone has any hard evidence other than hearsay to add about the 'multiple 99999 F50 rumour', I'm interested. Kind regards.
Very confusing Jim. To add to the confusion, the car has been operated on Hawaii plates. Furthermore, what was the point of the car being Federalized at G&K, and yet still being registered in Guernsey? If it is indeed registered abroad as RM state, duty will be due if a USA buyer buys the car to use here. You will want to see the DOT & EPA releases to ensure that you can in fact Title & Register it here. The showcar history, if this can be documented as correct, is very impressive. As is the Swaters ownership. I think the car's provenance just needs a good historian to sort out and define. FWIW, if a USA buyer buys it, it will certainly be the only F50 with ID # 99999 here in the USA.. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Victor: I think Richard and yourself, both of whom have been connected with this car, are taking the view that "we haven't seen anything else so it doesn't exist". That's understandable on several levels. However, those that are claiming that multiple examples exist, are more detached, and have no connection with the car per se, and thus can be seen to be being more objective. Perhaps Sheehan will have to reveal his 'sources' and those historians will have to proffer their documentation. Perhaps Marcel Massini has something to say about the 99999 number/s. And welcome to F-Chat!!
They've only had sixteen years - give 'em time! Guessing if there was another five9 F50 in private hands, someone would've chimed-up over the course of time. Though anything's possible ...
First of all welcome Victor. The story about Mister Swaters asking for removal of the chassis plate on the car at the Galleria sounds perfectly believable, but that still leaves a number of other 'Ghost 99999' rumors unsolved. I understand it's hard to believe anything that cannot be proven on the spot, but the people in this chat do their homework quite well so I am still not convinced this is the only car wearing the (admittedly very cool) 99999 Vin. I agree with Joe and I think the 'big guns' should come to rescue. natant
Thanks Joe, nice to talk to you. I see your point and in theory you are right, that unless you can't prove there isn't another one, you can't be 100% sure, but that applies to...every Ferrari produced. However, I would like to say two things: firstly, today I don't care the slightest wether there is another 99999 or not (back then I admit I did because it could have jeopardized the sale). Secondly, I have countered every argument/sighting in the article. The locks N°325 are in fact those of the Swaters car, the Guernesey plates are those of the Swaters car, the pictures shown in the article were taken at Garage Francorchamps, the steering column does have the chassis plate, MODIS shows only one car (with matching chassis, assembly, gearbox numbers of this car), the Galleria car is not 99999 and last but not least, although I'm ready to believe there is another one somewhere, the first evidence of its existence is yet to be presented... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Forgot to add that 99999 was built on 31 May 1995 but that it was delivered to Francorchamps/Swaters only in January 1998. Prior to this it was used as a showcar all over the world with different PROVA plates, possibly causing the multiple cars impression.
Yes, but... "For example, he spotted two F50s in Mugello on the same day, both with s/n 99999. One carried factory plates Prova MO2112 while the second had Prova MO2268."
I guess not, and that makes me wonder. I can imagine 5 or 6 cars using the 5x9 chassis # for testing/display purposes. That makes it easier to go out there and do development work without having to worry about bureaucratic 'nonsense' regarding registration and insurance. But in the end only one single car can be shipped to a customer with that unique 99999 Vin. After reading Michael Sheehan's article I understand there might be doubles when it comes to built numbers (assembly numbers) but in the end a Vin# must be the unique identification number. One more thing: Didn't the F50 that was delivered to Jaques Swaters have a yellow 'belt line' instead of a black one to honor his Ecurie? I can be mistaking but I vaguely remember Ferrari World had an article about his collection and the cars of his friend Jean 'Beurlys' Blaton. I'll dig into that tomorrow. If you guys don't beat me to it natant
