Need a few SR Hose test fitters | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Need a few SR Hose test fitters

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by davehelms, Jul 14, 2010.

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  1. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
    BANNED Professional Ferrari Technician

    Apr 26, 2006
    3,664
    New England
    Full Name:
    David Feinberg
    Same here...
     
  2. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2007
    58,067
    Bavaria, The 'Other' Germany
    Full Name:
    Mark W.R.
    Dave,

    I honestly have to question that statement from the INSIDE; being an owner.

    I was one too at one time, who spent "$1MM dollars" on a Ferrari and bragged about how I saved 50 cents on a tensioner buying it from God knows where. There are still VERY MANY owners around who think that way. Over the years and notably from YOU (and a precious few others), I learned, however.


    But, from the OUTSIDE, that perception is likely true.
     
  3. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    Fit is great, and the more compliant silicone construction (as opposed to the OEM compound or EPDM alternatives) makes installation much easier as well.

    Nice job on this one, Dave :)

    I'll post some photos tomorrow.
     
  4. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
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    Dave Helms

    Completely correct. One factor not included is, to date there was no top shelf alternative until now. Some will always search for the cheapest, that cannot be changed. The never ending search for "Cheap" has now gone to the point where that is all that is being supplied and we have now seen the results of this quest.

    As you know better than most, this was built for those looking for the best. The value is in the long term longevity of the product. A tough pill for some at first but a refreshing change of pace for those that have reached the end of their rope with the "cheap alternative's". For my own use at my shop, warranty repairs on hoses in place for a ridiculously short time became too much to bear. Everything we buy today is designed with a disposable mentality and an early planned obsolecence.... folks can only take so much of that and I think we (surely for myself) have reached the breaking point. For some my thoughts are wrong, for others it is spot on.
     
  5. philvecc

    philvecc Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    751
    Longmeadow, MA
    Full Name:
    Philip Vecchiarelli
    Dave,
    I've been following this with interest. Over the next 2 years both my '85 308 and '89 TR will be needing a major. Do you publish the pricing for your kits so that I can factor it into my plans?
    Thanks.
     
  6. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms

    As soon as I have the formed hoses on the shelf I will be setting up the distributor network. All of the recognized Ferrari Parts Sales regulars have expressed an interest in representing the coolant and fuel hose lines as well as a number of other products we are now making, some being sponsors here.

    My goal with this was to bring back honest quality product's and allow the parts sales houses and shops doing things right to make an honest profit if they choose to offer their customers the option of using these products. A bit of a Beaver Cleaver approach but this business used to be fun decades ago and we had options of many quality offerings back then. Time for that to return, I can step aside and let the pro's of the parts business do what they do well and I can get back to getting dirty in the shop. It took a lot of work and capital to get this started but with all of the logistics near done, we can build a great number of products, offer them to the parts houses and shops and it wont slow our own shops progress on customer car repairs.

    I started production yesterday on all but 3 formed hoses still waiting for test fitting results. When it is done and on the shelf I am sure your favorite Parts Sales Houses will let everyone know its available and the pricing.
     
  7. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    #82 finnerty, Aug 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, I suck..... I forgot all about posting the photos!

    Better late than never I hope.... Here it is ---- the "308 2V formed intake" coolant hose installed on the forward bank. As I mentioned earlier, the fit was terrific. I also pressure tested the hose to 30psi / 30 minutes with no leakage whatsoever :)

    If you have ever replaced these hoses on a 308, you know what a PITA job it is. So, I can't imagine why anyone would not want to put on the best hoses they could get!! And, these SR units are the best I've come across ---- I'm fairly confident this will be the LAST time I ever have to wrestle with this chore --- I expect these hoses will be good to go for the duration!
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  8. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    Dave Helms
    #83 davehelms, Aug 14, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2010
    Thanks David.

    Every hose is Post-Cured and Autoclaved with a very tough outer jacket we designed. This hose is very dense and designed to be clamped tight, its not the spongy, limp, easily clamp cut silicone hose we used to know. The game and goals with this hose have completely changed.

    This is an all new design of ours dealing with every short coming of the silicone hose of days past.... It is intended to out last any reasonable expectation while dealing with the expansion/contraction we have in the aluminum castings. By getting rid of the carbon compounds found in the old rubber and changing to the silicone, those castings will not errode away from under the hose.... we tried to cover every base with this.
     
  9. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,272
    socal
    Dave could you comment on the positbilites of these great silicones one day being used in say bellows connections on air intakes and perhaps the breakdown of such silicone, from time elements, oils and modern gasoline on O2 sensors? I could see your great silicone concept applied in other areas and perhaps misused.
     
  10. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,272
    socal
    By the way I like those hose clamps. Will those be available for sale too for non-SRI cars?
     
  11. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    Dave Helms
    Silicone hose used in the presence of fuel or oil vapors has to be lined or failure and break down over time will happen. To what extent and how quickly will depend on how close the hose is to the vapor source and the concentration levels.

    We found a single ply lining was required and able to deal with this on the oil return hoses as there is direct fluid contact. I have not looked into the uses for this hose regarding intake track possibilities but have always wanted stepped hoses for this application so there would be a constant diameter throughout. With the CAD and tool fabricating issues resolved, this would now be easily done.... its the fine details in this area that make the Real difference. My first reaction would be that I would want it lined as per our fuel and oil return hoses, if for no other reason the protection of the O2 sensors. When I have our new O2 sensors in hand I will do some testing in that area.... its an interesting question I have no answers for. I surely would not want non post cured silicone hose in that application and have had to deal with that issue on the F40's we service.

    I put the hose engineers and clamp engineers together and this is what they came up with. The clamps are stainless, pretty darn nice to work with and reasonably priced. Due to the wide band they get tightened quite snug but when clamped on a clean nipple... they have proven highly effective. With the old soft silicone hose design a rolled edge was an absolute requirement as the clamp would embed into the hose and cut it, the outer jacket we designed changes that. Josh's test fitting proved the need for us to change the lengths of the 550 molded valley hose so this wider clamp would be user friendly in that application. In that case, 3/8's of an inch makes a big difference and is why I needed all of these test fit prior to production. Doing this test fitting delayed the release of these hose kits near a year but to do it right.... its a requirement that cant be over looked.

    Yes, as soon as the Ferrari applications are done I will be starting on the non Red Car hoses. I know that is where the pay back will be and knew if I focused on those first I would never find the time to come back to this marques needs.... just not enough volume to justify the investment of time and energy. When these are done we will be able to satisfy our shops daily needs and then can move on to the other marques needs as we will already have the processes and variables worked out.
     
  12. bcwawright

    bcwawright F1 Veteran

    Jul 8, 2006
    5,234
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    #87 bcwawright, Aug 15, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2010
    Don't waste your time on the early Panzer marque, it's air cooled like most lawn mowers.....lol
     
  13. JoshECS

    JoshECS Formula Junior
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    May 3, 2010
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    Ashburn,VA
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    Josh Hill
    I was extremely impressed at how dense the hose is, and how strong the clamps are also.

    As per Dave's instruction I clamped the living hell out of every SRI hose on our 550 and thought for certain I would blow apart the clamps before I saw any breach in the hose's structure.

    Fortunately as Dave said, I ran out of muscle before either the hose or clamps gave in.

    Funny enough, a couple days later one of the OEM soft silicone hoses which goes from the valley to the electric circulation pump actually blew off from pressure. I clamped it extremely tight as well...in fact the clamp was still latched onto the end of the hose.

    The SRI stuff is definitely considerably stronger, and will surface any weak points still remaining in the system.

    Great photos as well Finnerty.
     
  14. FerrariChallenged

    Jan 14, 2009
    67
    Dave,

    I'm looking for a hose kit for a 456M. I did not see one available for 456/550 on Ricambi, is one available yet? I have a customer interested in a timing belt service this winter, and I wanted to replace the cooling hoses at the same time. I replaced the little hose under the intake last belt service 4 years ago, but of course since it was with the factory hose it will probably fail again soon. I would rather do all of the work at the same time since we all know those hoses are a failure waiting to happen.
     
  15. Buxton

    Buxton Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2010
    484
    Full Name:
    B Buxton
    Ewe, that's his willy hanging out of the pants
     
  16. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    The tooling for the lower radiator and upper radiator hoses is very close to being finished. I have all of the valley hoses on the shelf as well as all of the bleeder hoses... we are just waiting on the two molded hoses to call it done. Hopefully near the first of the year Daniel will have them in hand and available. If you have the car apart before that time... give a shout and we can get the valley hoses done on a triage basis and you can do the others when they become available.

    This latest batch of tooling consisted of the two above hoses and the front engine hose for the 512TR..... I saved the ugly ones for last as that 512TR hose is a 3D hose and is the cause of my machinists oncoming baldness.
     

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