Is Ferrari confiscating and crushing replicas?

2x 250GTO, 1x 250 TdF


Onno

 

The Brockett replica may have been an "exact re-creation" by the standards of the time (late 80's), but it sure isn't one by the standards of today. I remember that when a few pics of it were distributed to identify a mystery car, one of the real experts instantly said "looks like a fake to me". That's how accurate it is.

Best wishes, Kare

 

Anybody who has attended more than a few high level shows has seen dozens of attempts at misrepresentation, mostly unsucessfull. Are you sure there were Ferraris at the shows you attended? Were they car shows? You know, there are all kinds of shows...

In the good old frontier days property rights reffered to physical property. Then came the 20th century, and now we have even started on a 21st century. During all those years, there arose a new concept that is one of the main foundations of capitalism and global prosperity: It is called INTELECTUAL RIGHTS. In our capitalist societies, you are the proprietor of your intellectual and artistic creations, you can register trademarks, or establish copyrights. Is that so hard to understand? I mean really...

In some countries, like Italy, that protection extends to certain brands, and the law establishes that the state can intervene and confiscate unauthorized reproductions of that brands' products. Even Americans (Gasp!) are subject to these laws.

It is precisely to ensure respect for individual property rights that fakes, and their owners, should be crushed. In Italy, they are already doing it with the fakes. I salute yet a new manifestation of Italian genius.

You mean you just want to flog a fake GTO or SWB.

 

damn! so now your saying Ferrari is crushing the owners as well...tough crowd indeed! LOL

 

What if I did a tachometer needle restoration and rebody on my Hillman Husky and made it look exactly like a Lusso, (V12 and all)? Is my Hillman Minx safe from the crusher if I don't have any badges or indications that it was made in italy by an italian firm?

Would such a vehicle be subject to confiscation and smooshing if I drove it around italy?

 

You know... I am actually surprised that nobody has gone to the effort to build replica chassis so that no real cars are required to serve as donors.


Terry[/QUOTE]

Here is a Gullwing frame I built with no numbers..
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Here is a Gullwing frame I built with no numbers..[/QUOTE]

You need to "restore" another car so you get that car's title. So you find a ruined Humber Super Snipe, include a couple bits and pieces in your otherwise new frame / body, and declare it a restored Super Snipe for the purposes of passing emissions tests. That is, if you hope to drive it on the road without jumping through hoops to get it titled.

There are other ways -- such as in california you can stand in line for 3 days to get one of the few SB100 kit car registrations they issue, though once you do that you may not be able to register the vehicle in texas or sweden.

Of course, I'm not sure the super snipe would be valid, but if it isn't legally able to get a title, I'm not sure a similarly mauled 250gte should be able to get title either...

 

You need to "restore" another car so you get that car's title. So you find a ruined Humber Super Snipe, include a couple bits and pieces in your otherwise new frame / body, and declare it a restored Super Snipe for the purposes of passing emissions tests. That is, if you hope to drive it on the road without jumping through hoops to get it titled.

There are other ways -- such as in california you can stand in line for 3 days to get one of the few SB100 kit car registrations they issue, though once you do that you may not be able to register the vehicle in texas or sweden.

Of course, I'm not sure the super snipe would be valid, but if it isn't legally able to get a title, I'm not sure a similarly mauled 250gte should be able to get title either...[/QUOTE]

Trust me... he isn't asking how to get a title for the chassis... Im sure he knows pretty well how to get a title for the car... especially if he constructed that chassis himself...

Concerning the reason why a mauled 250gte should be able to get title... because the car... which the legal identification and definition of "the car" is its chassis... The 250GTE chassis was built back in the 60s. The time line here is key. Any newly constructed car must be given a new VIN number under certain specific state guidelines... or if they want to get into manufacture status and issue your own vin... get ready to crush a few cars and pass some epa guidelines... Ohh... and bring your chequebook too... your going to need it.

New constructions are heavily regulated. You either go the kit car status or full on manufacturer status.

And yes... people who have taken street cars that have had there chassis numbers removed and applied to another "real" car are actually have committed a felony... And this has been done many many many many times over in the collector car world. There are GT-350s out there that got rusted out and people cut the VINs off there car and pasted them on say a regular Mustangs chassis... often referred to as a "rebody"


but Im probably just getting everyone off track

 

The Mustang/Shelby world is full of them. The boldest is most probably CS himself, as a few years ago he 'found' some 'original' frames lost in some warehouse. Sold them for a mint as they were not 'kits' or 're-pro'. Any ways those cars were legally sold in California as the real McCoy and all.

The other similar story is about Model A, for a long time sheetmetal was available. Long story short one manufaturer tooled-up to make frames, did not publish it, showed-up at a concours event, won best restored, then advised people on the podium his "winner' was actually all new.

Italy might have gone that route, but I can say for certainty that much repro-cloning is going-on on this side of the pond.

 

with those and the continued CX series, Shelby had VIN numbers to apply and could/can do so being a limited manufacturer

not sure how registration works for a scratch made (non manufacturer) chassis exactly...it would likely have to be registered same as a kitcar is, because it would be essentially just that, no matter how exactly reproduced

interestingly, as some have pointed out, Enzo himself would cannibalize a previous seasons race car to build another, or parts for several, etc...but i do agree against hacking up a car that is in otherwise good order

yes, i had heard too about the italian replica maker, of 355 bodies on mr2 chassis, being shut down...i still find it unlikely his clients who had already bought a car, were included in the seizure and crush order, but i could be wrong & would like to know

i'd still love to see/hear some more factual cases & info about if/what/when Ferrari has seized and crushed cars

 

very nice...how is your car registered as?

 

Thats a good question. Some states (I don't know which ones yet) allow kit cars to be registered as the year they resemble thereby bypassing emmisions and some DOT requirements.

 

California, for instance, has a law called SB100 where they issue a small number of kit car registrations that require the car to pass "year the thing resembles" requirements.

But to get one of those you have to stand in line for a couple days to get one of the few they issue on the first of the year. If you miss it, wait another year and try again...

And, once you do that, I'm not sure you'd be able to register the same car in Idaho or France as an old car.

Other places may have similar laws / exceptions.

 

I think this gets to the heart of the "Rebody" issue.

How much of the original must be intact before the original title is invalid? An atom? The original VIN plate? 50% of the original frame?

Would the GT-350 have been a valid "rebody" if instead of using a donor mustang someone had simply made a completely new chassis? What if I melt down the original and made new sheet steel and used that to make a new body?

It might dissuade people from mauling a 250gte if they found that they couldn't title it after they "restore" it.


But what about hotrods?

 

No, I'm not saying that Ferrari is doing that. . . but read back a few posts, somebody said that replicas "should be crushed, along with their owners."

I don't like replicas. But I'm not going to go so far as to say that their owners don't deserve to live, as one person did say while overstating his case just a bit.

 

The world has gone soft. What about Salem or the Holy Inquisition? Personally, I like fire better, more of a show and a lot less expensive, of course not ecological...

 

Thank Christ they are unable to bring them in anymore to Australia.The ones that are here are shunned by owners of older cars.

 

Crushing would be too much of a spectacle. Just take them to court and make them compensate Ferrari, Porsche or whatever company's badge they stole to dress up their fake.

I wish our car culture here was more discriminating. I think if we had a version of Goodwood here (like they do in the UK) people would start to appreciate the history, heritage and craftsmanship. Right now it seems like it's a niche in the U.S. As long as it looks like a GTO, 550 Spyder or what-have-you, then who cares where it originated.

 

Bullfighter... Question... Would you have a close to perfect replica of a car that no longer exists crushed or the sharknose crushed?

 

I can't/don't speak for Ferrari, but from my perspective a replica is just another expendable modern car. Whether it's perfect or shoddy, rare or common, is beside the point.

If I were associated with Ferrari and it were my decision, I would preserve and return any historically important bits and scrap the rest.

The issue in this thread was the theft of the Ferrari logo/badge/name, and Ferrari has the moral high ground on this one.

 

So if Ferrari ownes the logo,badge, name, (which I agree) how do they feel legally that they own the car? Give them the badges back.

 

Guys, I really don't think that Ferrari is confiscating and crushing cars owned by individuals.

The only instance I know of in which Ferrari had cars taken and ordered destroyed was the case of the company in Italy that was mass producing MR2 and Fiero-based "replicas" that displayed Ferrari badging.

An appropriate deterrent to continuing to do that, I think.

As for owners, particularly those who put their "replicas" together themselves, I don't think that Ferrari has the time or inclination to pursue individual, privately owned vehicles.

If anyone has information that I'm wrong about this, please post and cite references. At this point, I'm really on Ferrari's side about this. . . but taking cars from individuals would be crossing the line.

 

Law isn't about feeling.

Someone who appropriates the Ferrari logo/badge/name has committed theft. It's not much different than putting a Microsoft logo on software you write and then worrying that MSFT will confiscate the CD with the code on it.

Frankly, having an essentially worthless replica confiscated might be considered small potatoes with regard to possible remedies that Ferrari might seek in the courts.

In the States, at least, a good attorney could probably go after a lot more than the fake toy in the garage.

 

I think you're right about that, at least from a time perspective.

As I posted above, if a case went to court, I think forfeiture of the fake Ferrari would be considered a very lucky outcome for the owner of the fake.

I'd welcome comment from a patent/trademark attorney, which I am not.

P.S. One of the reasons this thread caught my attention is that I'm currently consulting/editing a project on the topic of brand valuation in the context of international accounting standards. Not sure about Ferrari, but for some brands - such as Amex - the brand is estimated to contribute a staggering ~60% to the company's market capitalization.

 

Blackjag, what do you mean with 'them'?
I understand the Pur Sang look-a-like 35B's are imported by the dozen in Australia.
Bart340