First DIY 30k service - dropped washer in cyl head - Need Help

Having kicked off my first attempt at a 30k service last week, my intent was to collect a bunch of great pics, craft a thorough writeup, and post everything once the car was successfully back on the road. Some of you may remember me and my white 348ts from Supercar Sundays in SoCal.

Though I haven't posted much, I spent a year lurking prior to buying my 348, and have spent the past year as an owner soaking up the advice of FBB, Plugz, Ernie, and others in preparation for performing the 30k service. I can't begin to describe how much I appreciate those of you who have contributed your knowledge and experience with the 348 to this site over the years. Without your shared knowledge and encouragement I never would have had the confidence to purchase my dream car with the intent of servicing it myself. I do have 10yrs experience racing and working on BMWs, but never would have embarked on the Fcar adventure without knowing that I had Fchat at my disposal.

Unfortunately, I am in need of advice from the 348 community before being able to post my 30k service success story.

As I was reinstalling the 1-4 intake Cam, I accidentally dropped one of the small Cam cap washers into the cylinder head, in the pocket between cylinders 3 and 4. I fished around with a magnet to no avail, and am now worried that the washer fell down the oil passage at the bottom of the area between the cylinder 3 and 4 exhaust valve springs.

Short of pulling the engine apart, which I am wholly unprepared to do, does anyone have any methods, tools, or advice for fishing out the washer?

Thank you all in advance.

Russell
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Compressed air may work.

 

Was the spark plug in?

Are you sure it is in the head and not bounced off onto the floor?

How about buying a dentist mirror from your local dentist?

You may gain more access and light into the area by pulling the cam again and even the buckets and even the springs if you have to.

You can keep valves a float with compressed air into the sparkplug hole and that piston at BDC. Then look for it. If no good then reassemble the cylinder and repete on other side valves. I do not think the washer is big enough for the oil hole but could reduce flow to it. So I would find it or make double dam^ sure it is not in the head.

 

Thanks for the suggestions!

The spark plug was in, and I'm pretty sure the washer didn't end up on the floor (I looked around for a while)

I suppose next step is more and/or better visibility into the head with mirrors and further disassembly. It's hard to tell due to the angle, but it sure looks like the oil passage is big enough for the washer to fall in, and that is my biggest fear. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

I've been pulled out of the garage for Christmas dinner, but I'll be giving it a try again on Sunday.

Thanks

 

I would definately try to "see" where it is before trying anything else, if it fell a short distance, maybe it didn't have legs to get any where critical. I'm sure your Christmas dinner will be great but your mind will probably be somewhere else now...sorry to hear this. Keep us informed...

 

Sorry to hear that. This is always my biggest concern. I dropped a 10mm socket into an open throttle body once. This is why they make blue tape.

Maybe buy/rent a boroscope?

http://www.atlas-inspection.com/

 

There are some pretty nice small autofocus web cams available. Makes it easier for my old azz eyes to see small chit. Works better with a big azz monitor but generally the laptop monitor is acceptable. Lighting is the only real issue.

 

A good example of why it's important to cover openings and handle hardware with extreme care. I typically lay things out on a clean rag in an organized fashion just to be sure everything is always accounted for.

That said, I'll bet you'll be okay. Take a fresh look at it, use a mirror and a bright light and a small magnet. Take your time.

 

+1

 

A white 348??

I love it!

Kai

 

Russell,

Give a little poof of air in the area it dropped with as many magnets as you have available placed in there. If nothing comes out, break off the magnet from a telescope stalk and put it on a rubber vacuum hose. Pull the sump drain plug and start fishing in the bottom of the pan. I have found quite an assortment of top end hardware laying in the bottom of the sumps over the years, washers, NUTS, valve stem seals... enough to really make you wonder what's been going on?! My bet is one of the two methods will locate it, dont dwell on just the top end until you check down in the bottom.

 

Air blasts are dangerous because things happen so fast you can sometimes move the washer in unpredicatable ways or drive it to a worse place or blast it out and not find where it went. At least right now he knows about where it is.

 

+1

Home Depot sells a decent boroscope.
Buy it , if only temporarily and scan the nooks and crannys.
With magents, small dental type mirrors you will find the washer.
Patience is the key here.

 

Somthing else that may also help. Get a mate to have a look for the washer within the engine with the magnets ect. Some times one can focus/look so hard that one can over look the item as its looking you right in the face.
The amount of times i have been looking for somthing for hours, just for my wife to pick it up straight away

 

Thank you all for the great ideas and support!

I plan to have another go at it tomorrow morning with mirrors, magnets and scope in hand.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Russell

 

Had the same thing happen to me while removing the cams from my 456. Found the washer in the oil pan after a thorough search of the head didn't turn up the offending part. It must have made its way down the oil return tube on the outboard side of the head.

I used a shop vac that I cleaned out first - taped a tube to the end of the vacuum hose that was just under 1/2 in diameter. Fished around all the areas after taping over the sparkplug holes. I have had success with this method as it is less likely to send the part on a long journey when liberated....

 

I dropped a washer once changing the alternator on my 512TR, and it went right for the cam cover opening. It didn't hit the floor. I probably search for three hours. I was under the car and smacked the tray under the passenger seat in frustration and ... I heard it rattle. You cannot believe how small a gap it slipped into to get there.

I feel your pain. And I agree with the advice: patience.

Happy hunting!

 

It's too late for this but I got a great tip for these washers. Don't move them with hands, always use a magnet. I removed them from the studs with a magnet and put them back in place with a small magnet. Only when in place did I use my finger to hold them down. I took a lot of time on that bit of the project. You are not alone, were not the first and will not be the last. You'll get past this. Good luck.

 

Awe man that just sucks.

I don't have any suggestions, and everyone has pretty much covered everything anyway. I do like Dave's idea of draining the oil and running magnets around.

 

You can find a cheaper boroscope at Harbor Freight tools if you have one nearby. I happen to see where they were selling one in an advertisement a few weeks ago and was thinking of picking it up just to have one. Good Luck!!

 

Well..good news and bad news update.

Bought the small diameter borescope from Harbor Freight, snaked it through the oil drain hole, and can see the washer perched against the rear-most oil pump cup. The bad news is it looks ready to fall into the oil recess with the slightest nudge. I'm going to do my best with a magnet.

I'll post again soon
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Got it!!!!

Firstly, thank you all for the great advice. I really appreciate the quick responses with retrieval methods and moral support.

I spent hours searching the head and oil pan with every type of light source, mirror, magnet, vacuum device, etc that I could get my hands on. In the end, the successful method employed two people, a borescope through the oil drain hole, and a magnet dropped down through oil passage in the head.


The steps were as follows:

1) Going in through the oil drain hole in the sump, snake borescope past oil pressure valve and the first oil pump cup, to find the washer resting on the lip of the rear-most oil pump cup. The borescope I used was Harbor Freight part# 67980 that has a 8.5mm diameter camera at the end of a 3ft cable. The video on the screen looks quite a bit better than the pics below. Though I found the washer resting on the oil pump cup, this method gave me great view of the whole rearward portion of the sump.

2) Attach a small magnet (7mm diameter) to the end of a 5ft length of safety wire. Wind small loop into the safety wire to allow control of wire orientation with a surgical forceps.

3) Feed wire and forceps down into the oil passage in the head between cylinders 3 and 4, with the forceps grips on the loop in the safety wire.

4) With one person watching the scope and the other guiding the wire, guide magnet toward washer. Use the forceps and the grab loop on the wire to control the magnet's orientation once on the bottom of the pan. Harder than it sounds, but with some practice on the wire guider's part, it worked.

5) Once washer is stuck to magnet, pull VERY slowly back up through oil passage in the head.

I did try to zip tie a magnet to the camera of the scope and go in entirely through the drain hole, but there just wasn't enough room to get the whole assembly to the back of the sump. I also tried using the small magnet attachment that comes with the scope, but the extra length made it impossible to snake the camera around the other obstacles in the sump.

I've attached a few more pics of the washer in the sump, and also of the tools I used to get it out.

Thanks again everyone. And keep your eyes open for more, hopefully less scary, updates on my 30k service.

Russell
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

WHEW!! Glad it all worked out - nice recovery!!

 

Nice work! I was on the edge of my seat hoping for a happy ending

 

Me too! Otherwise I would have been the copilot to a very expensive piece of art!
Ill be happy when you make it out the garage too.

Good job honey!