This is one of the most intelligent posts I have read recently about value. It is not just about supply and demand but also about substitutes. A subtle but important point: 360/CS/ and Scud will all be priced relative to one another -- a change in supply or demand for one will affect the supply, demand, and ultimately price of the other 2.
Just look at the F512M. By all accounts that is just a 512TR with goofy headlights. But the money says something totally different. A 512TR is $90k? While a perfect F512M is how much? $150k $175? While the Scuderia and Stradale will forever be linked together, especially if Ferrari isn't making a limited racy version of the 458, it will be the Stradale that is just a little more special. Not better, just a little more unique.
I could afford either CS or Scud and chose CS. If you're looking for performance, buy a Turbo Porsche. Lot's more Scuds were made than CS's and Scud prices have tanked more than any other car out there in the last year. Why? because they made more than there is demand for. Of course, I'm not saying the CS is about to go up in price, but if I were in the market for either, which I was, "performance" would not be a reason I'd be buying one. It is exclusivity and collectibility first. Like I said, want performance? buy a Lambo or a TT.
Yes, you can do what you did. But you're not the typical buyer. And when Scud prices fall further, the decision to choose between the two will be harder to make. All I'm saying is that it's a myth that because CS were made in fewer quantities it's not going to depreciate. Buy the CS because you like it. But this constant drumming from CS owners that others should choose to buy a CS because it's not going to depreciate as much is simply unfounded. As people come to this forum for advice, I think it's our duty to move past the myth and give them a dose of reality. Then, they can decide for themselves what is best for their hard earned cash.
very valid point. However, the comparison was not CS vs Scud. It was CS vs F430 (regular). some have postulated that CS price will eventually be above Scud. I do see their argument but I believe that day, if ever, will be many many years away.
This is your opinion. Nothing more. Don't like the CS, don't buy one. The fact remains, to find a nice CS will take you a lot of time and effort unless you want to give one of these sellers $170K for it. To find a nice Scud or 430 cheap will take a quick flip through Ebay. You claim the laws of "supply and demand" and then you act like they don't exist. There never were many CS's in the U.S. Many, many were totaled and many more are crap. I will never sell mine. I will only buy more cars to add to the stable.
The two touchy-est subjects on Fchat 1) How 6 speed manuals are so much better than F1's. 2) How "special" is a CS. No one is knocking the CS. I'm just pointing out a bit of economics that resale values are basedon more than just quantity.
Then why spend so much on an F40 or 250GTO etc? Why is the Ford GT holding up so well? I can tell you none of the above were made in large numbers. Supply and demand. Nothing more. I think a lot of folks with Scuds are trading to the 458. I do not think a lot of guys with CS's are dumping them for 458's or Scuds or 430's. I think all cars took a major hit in 2010. I do not think they will decline as quickly in 2011. I think the economy will be stronger this year. I think most of the bad apples (folks who must borrow to live lavishly) have been weeded out. I think the deals that were out there for all collectible cars have been gobbled up. Does this mean I think they will go up? No. But I think people that have acquired in the last year can afford to hold and wait and enjoy what they have. I am.
Before buying my F430, I drove both a CS and F430 and found the F430 better in almost everyway - acceleration, handling, useability, etc. A F430 may depreciate more than the CS - but the additional 10-20% depreciation is worth it for a better car. I find too many people obsess about depreciation and forget about every other attribute that makes a car enjoyable. And to those who prefer a CS, I respect your choice - it is your money and hope you enjoy the car. Just remember to move over when you see an F430 in your rear view mirror.
It wont do it to a 458 also. But if you want a Ferrari race car experience, one that is more rare than a F40 then go for the CS. BTW, I've driven them all on a race track, the CS gives you a race car feel, the others find yourself looking for the nearest radio station.
And I'm sure it does and I'm sure it's a wonderful car. THAT is the reason to recommend it. People should forget all this depreciation nonsense when considering what to buy and just buy what they want and what they can afford--without the guilt or worry that somehow they may or may not lose a lot of money.
The CS's racecar feel - I completely agree with. As far as the radio station comment - not true...a 430 owner would have to upgrade to a 458 to get a working radio!!!
Dude, you're the one who brought this whole conversation up. Nobody has talked about values and depreciation more than you. Flip back to the top of page 2 and start reading. Look, I love talking about cars and their values. It's a huge part of the joy of ownership for me. I'm not in it for 0-60 times. I think all that is silly unless you're doing it as a career.
You pretty much summed it all up there. I bought my first F-car, a F430, to keep and hopefully in the next couple of years will acquire a 458 to join the stable. How is the 430/ or even the 458, going to keep up with the 0-60 war say in ten years, if we are still alive that is by then where we may be seeing 0-60 times of perhaps 0.5secs? Who knows? I embrace every squeak, pop and crackle sound my 430 makes coz to me that adds character to the car. Just enjoy cars as they are, be it modded or stock, soak in the joy they bring. And if there's none then thats not the right car for you.
Getting back to the original post: the Seattle CS has lots of miles for what it is, nothing wrong with that except the price is way too high. $115K is ALL the money retail for that car, any more and you're pissing in the wind. Second: I agree with b/delp in that the CS as well as the 430 values are most definately linked to their successors, the Scud and 458. While it is true that the CS is the most rare of these models, it's value in the market ultimately will be limited by the Scud, which overall is a better and more usable car (I've owned both). This is true despite the unique beauty and sound of the CS. For similar money most buyers would buy the Scud over the CS. Third, choosing between ANY CS and a 430 in part involves choosing between how visceral and raw an experience one wants. The CS is the more emotional experience, but it is slower in a straight line, noisier, less luxurious, and generally suited to driving only on the smoothest and well paved roads (or a track) when compared to the 430. The CS is more an occasional use type car, the 430 more suited to any time/place use. Good luck w/your decision.
First, my name is not Dude. And no, I was NOT the one who brought it up. Would you like to know why? Because someone came on this board asking if they should choose between two different cars and time after time, people say "buy the CS because it won't depreciate". Well, I disagree and I laid out my case. And, I'll say this for the 1000th time. Buy the CS becuase you like it. Don't buy it because you think it's going to go up in value -- because-- it ain't. If you're choosing a Ferrari only for the money, you're only going to be disappointed in the long run.
Thanks for all the input and the PM's, very helpful in my decision. I already own a carb'ed 308, which is a fairly raw and visceral experience as it sits. The civility (and chain engine) of the 430 appeal to me (and wife), but the raw and uniqueness of the 360CS does equally. Probably 6 months off in any purchase in any case so plenty of time to think. Thanks again fellas. Geno Image Unavailable, Please Login
