What would a 355 engine look like in a 308?? [pics]

-we are building these cars to DRIVE... not to sell... and IF you could get one of us to sell one- the next one we'd build will blow away the last one-

 

Who cares?

The point is to have a car just like one likes it. The looks of a 308 with the power of a 355 is an incredible combination, and I salute the people working on it. I actually saw this car a while back when I visited LA, and thought the idea was cool then. I'm glad it's ruffling feathers Think how boring the world would be if every car stayed factory-stock. No Tubis, no Keonig, no Norwood quad-turbo monsters. ZZZZZ............

 

OR, you could bolt a Turbo on to a QV or FI car and have 400hp.

I know Nick is working on a 4.0L project and I just wondered what became of it. Besides which, the P6 Cam 10:1 308 motor has be done by many people, including people on this site.

I would agree that all that machine work would add up, but when you look at the "big picture" I would think that boring a 308 motor would be more cost effective for the $$. Not to mention a maintenance stand point.

 

I'll bet somebody can drum up the piece on slotting a Daytona motor into a 3 series (can't remember if it was a 308 or 328, but it was done years ago). Car was shown in the magazines at the time, and the guy who did the engine swap wrote a "how-to" book which is a curiousity piece. This subject has come up periodically here, but not for a great while.

 

Good color too.

 

Yesterday I got this mail:

Hello,
I too love the pure lines of the 308. I have a 308 with a 355 engine, transmission and brakes. I just bought a 288 GTO bodied 308 with the intention of installing a 360 motor. However, I prefer a cross between the 308 and the GTO. I think the GTO is a little too extreme and looses some of the 308's grace. So I really like your car as it has the grace of the 308 and the muscle of the GTO.

How heavy is the car now?
Would you be willing to do another car for me?

Regards,
Tristram

This was my answer:

I do agree with you that the GTO body is a little too wide for the standard 308 wheelbase, and I think thatswhy mine will look better, more elegant.
The weight of my car should be about the same as before. The fenders are wider but there is not that much extra metal involved, though I needed a fair amount of bodyfiller to get it smooth... I replaced the heavy US bumpers with light ones made of sheetmetal, removed the steel tubes in the doors and all the extra metal in the trunk, thus in fact my car is lighter now than before.
As for your request to do another car, I'm sorry, when this one is finished I will have spent 3 years of my life on this project, and that is really enough! Though I learned alot and could do it faster the next time. Also I'm curious as to how the body will hold with all the filler and welds, maybe I should make polyester molds next year or so and duplicate the whole front and rear in glass fiber polyester, if so I will let you know if you want an extra set of panels.
I'm really curious about your projects. Do you have pictures of the 355 engined 308? How is the motor installed, longitudinally or transverse? Standard wheelbase? Was it a lot of work?
Where did you get the GTO bodied 308 from, ebay, www.italianauto.com ? Do you have pictures? How are you planning to install the 360 engine, and how are you going to run this engine, ingnition/injection control, as the 360 engine is completely computer controlled and very much embedded and integrated in the design of the car, you would need every computer and everything and after service (which probably only a Ferrari dealer could perform) all the computer has to be reset.
Maybe you want to post about these projects of yours on www.ferrarichat.com , I'm sure you will generate a lot of interest and responses there, also there is great technical knowledge and help from the people there. Where are you located?
Many questions!
Regards, Bert.

And this was the reply:

Hello Bert,
As the GTO, F40 and F50 were all composite cars, making a mold from your car to build composite panels would make excellent sense and would be much easier than trying to replicate all that handy metal work.

As for the "358", we took the entire rear subframe from the 355, cut out the frame of the 308, and bolted up the 355. So it looks like a 355 under the decklid with 355 suspension, brakes, subframe, transmission, etc. This lowers the center of gravity and the 355 motor / transmission weighs less than the standard 308 so not only is the CG lowered, but weight is lowered and we have much more HP.

The GTO was purchased locally as a rough project. Perfect for me. What is already done is the attachment of the body to the frame and this appears very stiff. What was left for me was the interior (which allows me to do one to my taste), wheels and even though it has a motor, I will change this. The 360 install is more of a challenge. Will likely bolt the 360 to a 355 transmission and will use an aftermarket fuel management system such as Motec or Electromotive. I've got 18" speedline wheels, 8.5" front and 13" rear with 245mm tires in front and 335/30 in rear and they fit perfectly! The car literally looks better than a standard GTO!

Please do let me know if you make a mold from your car. I think many people, including myself, would be interested in such a body.

I don't have photos of the 358 but somehow they've appeared on Ferrari Chat!

Regards,
Tristram

 

Interesting. I think I've spoken to Tristam, he was doing a supercharger or planing to I think.

I really like the engine swap. It looks like a ton of work, but a great project. I almost talked myself into putting a TR engine and subframe in my car but decided it was just too much work and wnet with the supercharger upgrade instead. All the hp at 1/2 the price and 1/4 the labor.

I built a Fiadilac many years ago and that taught me that I s*ck at body design/work and I should avoid it at all cost for the rest of my life

I just found a few pics....clearly under the heading of what was I thinking when I decide a fiat needed a 500 ci engine????

 

That's funny. My metal shop teacher in high school had a pinto with a vette engine. It WAS odd though

 

That's way too funny because I built one of those too just after HS....but the engine fit in that car unlike the fiadilac. And a 3.1 chevy v6 in an MG midget with a turbo (from a saab if I recall) for good measure.

 

Update anyone on the balckhorse 358????????

was it ever completed?

pictures??

 

If you notice, Ferrari quit Boring out this engine architecture at the 348 level, and stroked that to 3.5 and 3.6 litres. The bore spacing and cylinder wall thicknesses don't allow a manufacture to bore it out much more. But a privateer might be able to squeeze some more displacement than the factory could out of it.

But Consider a couple of things:

1) The dry sump 355 engine sits 5 inches LOWER than the 308 wet sump engine and that extra 5 inches is used for the Helmholtz resonators, velocity stacks, and throttle bodies contained therein. This moves a lot of weight lower and greatly improves the CoG of the converted car.

2) Even if you got the 308 into the big displacement you are not going to get the air to flow through the 'pump' as well.

3) 355 motors operate at 11.25:1 compression and you aren't going to be able to run a lot more on pump gass unless you have really good control over the mixture. Like you would get with a fuel injection system, a modern ECU, Mass Air Flow metering, and an oxygen sensor in the feedback loop which comes with the 355 motor transplant.....

 

Same way F40 does. F40 is more or less a Super 308 w a crappy interior

 

Modifications underway for a low boost twin turbo set up using trick turbos. No heavy cast iron units here but aluminum and stainless steel housings with rollerbearings to spool up asap. Big issue is this: Aluminum body GTO or keep standard body. Tough one as this car has only had two owners and not a spot of rust nor accident history ever. An aluminum GTO bodies car with a twin turbo F355 motor would be pretty amazing though!

 

Please go with GTO body

 

Hows this twin turbo 355 in a 308?
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Since you went with the 355 rear suspension assemblies, your track is always going to be too wide for the standard 308 body, you'll have to go with GTO-style fenders. Why are you considering the condition of the body now that you have cut up the frame? Wheels sticking out the rear wheel-arches make it look like a kit-car. You'll also want to modify the rear quearter windows and allow for some more air into that engine bay, it'll need all it can get.
Btw., the 288 had GRP fenders, so why go for aluminium?
Have a look on the net, there's a car like yours in Japan, completed as a 288, which I think is stunning.
Did you use the 355 suspension assies in front as well, or are they still standard 308?
Great project, still would like to do one like that myself.

 

Isn't that Tristram's car?

 

+1

It would give the car the appropriate character. A 308 spooling up with turbo noise would just seem out of the ordinary

 

Interesting thread....is that twin turbo car the same one as in the original post/?




PDG

 

I think Excelsior is Tristram B

 

With unmodified wheelbase I think the Michelotto Rally 308 style round wheelarch lips would look best and solve the problem of wider track. Or reweld that 355 subframe 4 inches further back with GTO style fenders. Norwood may still have molds from an original 288 from when they build the salt lake car, all other kits offered are for 308 wheelbase and look a bit out of proportion in my opninion.

edit, it seems he already decided, maybe somebody can copy the link and post as attachment because it seems my subscription expired
http://medicimotors.com/sitebuilder/images/My_Real_GTO_Spider_is_Under_Construction_2-255x130.jpg
seen here http://medicimotors.com/Tristram_Buckley_Cars.html

 

I can confirm that to you.

 

The question is if that is at all possible with the position of the clutch, which might cause that what is sitting behind the axle-line being too long overall. The Michelotto arches look too much like home-grown, an aestethically more pleasing solution can't be that hard to think of.

 

Yes...I finished the bulk of the work. After I left they did get the electrical done, ran perfect. Did some track I believe. The owner drove the piss out of it around town. It is a monster, handles great too. Last I checked twin turbos were being installed. I'll post pics later.

 

No joke. No hokes my friend...I built the car. The car is a monster. If anyone wants tech on this car or the supercharged Mondial. Give me a holler. And if anyone wants me to build something out of the ordinary, I'm interested and qualified. I loved building this car. By the way a video of us goofing around when I was building this car it's up on youtube @

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3O8V9P8sqU[/ame]

Enjoy the clowning around. Ooh, and the girls. And yes these were employees , not paid actresses.
I'm the idiot cutting with no eye protection. No I don't work this way, just trying to get your attention. Also the guy TIG welding. The clown that knock out the video cam..That was expensive. Sorry Carl.... I am truly a serious professional! I was asked to create havoc and clown around. Not very good at that.

You can reach me at;

[email protected]