348 power quest... head rebiuld | Page 3 | FerrariChat

348 power quest... head rebiuld

Discussion in '348/355' started by TheItalianJob, Feb 26, 2010.

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  1. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Oct 1, 2008
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    Andrew
    Thanks Mike. :)

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  2. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #52 ernie, Feb 1, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2011
    Well that's interesting.

    Nice port job on the runners, and the top. How much extra flow/velocity did you pick up on those?
     
  3. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    #53 davehelms, Feb 2, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
    Single row chain is for the oil pump, double row chain is for the cam belt drive gear.

    Very nicely done blending work Daniel!
     
  4. TheItalianJob

    TheItalianJob Karting

    Dec 20, 2006
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    #54 TheItalianJob, Feb 2, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
    the general shape in the runner was kept...

    The lid was the main bottleneck. After much work we got the lid with TB to flow much better and am very pleased with it now.

    Seems weird to me but the OEM TB size flows well and has no drop in flow rate when put on the manifold... so i will run it as is for now. For this reason (small TB) I would like to run a larger plenum area (3/4" spacer under lid) and see what difference it makes on the dyno #.
     
  5. marcov

    marcov Karting

    Dec 8, 2007
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    Marco V
    Thanks for the information.
    Last year I stumbled on this five part article on how to eliminate negative boost (pressure drop within the intake manifold). The goal is to accurately measure the intake pressure at WOT. I am planning to take some measurements in the spring time.
    As detailed in the article, the goal is to measure the pressure after the air filter, MAF, throttle body and within the plenum at WOT. Using the pressure data, we can easy see where airflow in impeded.

    http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0629
    http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0637
    http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0646
    http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0652
    http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0663
     
  6. TheItalianJob

    TheItalianJob Karting

    Dec 20, 2006
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    Daniel
    #56 TheItalianJob, Feb 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OK here is were it gets interesting...
    After a lot of work we now have 34mm large intake valves in the head. (thats 4mm larger then factory... I think similar to the Sy's Le Mans engine)
    Exhaust is 1mm larger.
    Below are the flow #s...


    OEM (30.5mm)......31.5mm valve.....34mm valve...........complete intake
    ..................................................................................with lid & TB
    lift.......in.....ex
    .100.....87....84.............90.....................97...........................99
    .200....159..140...........168....................175.........................175
    .300....194..167...........209....................228.........................223
    .350....208..................220....................238.........................230
    .360....209..................222....................241.........................232

    With the 34mm measurements velocity is still higher than stock (+14% at max lift).
    With the manifold... it flows more at low lift (+2 cfm) and at max lift it has only a 3.7% restriction. I think that is very good for an intake manifold.

    below are pics... new and old intake valve, new valves on left and old I & E on right, chamber pics

    -daniel
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  7. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That is fantastic! I plan on doing the same thing to mine when the day comes that I have to open it up.
     
  8. TheItalianJob

    TheItalianJob Karting

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    #58 TheItalianJob, Feb 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    i tested my springs and they have gone soft and are below spec now. Are there good aftermarket springs available?

    Are there 348 aftermarket light weight followers (shim-under type) to lighten up the valvetrain? If anyone has some... could they weight them to see the savings?
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  9. 50hdmc

    50hdmc Formula 3

    Oct 10, 2006
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    awesome work there Daniel....
     
  10. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Thanks Dave!!
     
  11. Greybeardcars

    Greybeardcars Rookie

    Feb 3, 2011
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    Awesome job Dave!
     
  12. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
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    Nice so far Daniel. Your intake looks awfully much like mine. I could not tell how much, if at all, you widened the runner diameters. Goth reamed mine a bit. We also noticed that with the trumpet tops lowered and rounded and the intake space in place, the air flow from the bored TB's now enters the upper plenum above the trumpet wall line instead of squarely in the middle of it. Seemed kind of wacky to interupt the air flow in this way from the factory along with all those rough areas on the plemun inner surfaces. It just seems natural that the flow is improved.
     
  13. rbellezza

    rbellezza F1 Rookie

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    Really impressive !
     
  14. TheItalianJob

    TheItalianJob Karting

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    #64 TheItalianJob, Feb 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks

    Flowed the exhaust side with 1mm larger valve and with OEM header.

    ........OEM (27mm)......28mm valve..... w/OEM header
    ...................................no pipe
    lift........exhaust
    .100.........84....................85...................83
    .200........140..................164.................138
    .300........167..................187.................164
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  15. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You know you guys if you do make those 1/2'-1" plenum spacers you could drill them for adding a little nitrous oxide. For a streetcar then you don't have to do all this other silly machining. If you need NA for racing where nitrous is not allowed that's a different story.

    Vince...I assume goth still has the pattern for the plenum and want another 150hp without engine damage and surprise some turbo p-bugs nitrous is the way to do it and the car will pass smog
     
  16. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Bump, for dyno numbers.
     
  17. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

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    The plenum top will not flow any better with the plenum spacer on a flow bench ......... it will lower the resonance frequency of the plenum ................ it will also play a part during the individual intake demands of each cylinder ... a larger plenum creates a larger volume of air from which each cylinder can draw from ....... the benefits would be seen during engine accelerations, as this larger plenum affects all cylinders as a system.

    Looks good :)!!! That is what was done to Vince's intake as well ........ and if I recall correctly ....... Bruce's too .... :)


    cool :)!!! .......... were the flow numbers taken with an actual size cylinder under the head? .......... with bigger valves, sometimes one reaches the point of diminishing returns ...... as part of the valve flow 'curtain area' would begin to get 'shrouded' by the cylinder wall.
     
  18. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    fantastic work Dan

    in my own mods experience, i saw drivable gains from reducing restriction more & more as i got further away from the intake valve ...no single mod showed significance, but combined worked really well for n/a ....i mean proportionally so ...after the plenum port, i did a larger than expected TB port, i increased the intake hoses substantially more, and then the airboxes as much as i physically could make them ...also revs freed up at low rpm, and so did the intake noise level :D ....just more food for thought

    good luck :)
     
  19. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    One more question, did you have to get valve reliefs machined into the stock pistons, or did you go with after market piston with the reliefs built in?
     
  20. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
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    Just curious about the spacer between the plenums. Are you not trying to achieve the same thing as in the later GTS engines ie. they came with a taller plenum? Can you not just fit the later style plenums

    BTW Forgive me if I gt the technical details a bit wrng! LOL
     
  21. hyenahf

    hyenahf F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2004
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    nice....now we are talking!
     
  22. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Would you care to elaborate a bit more on what you did, and maybe even some pics? I have been thinking about doing the same, and have some ideas, but it helps when others have already gone down that path, to give you a better idea of what to do, and what not to do.
     
  23. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Bueller ..... Bueller ...... Bueller ...... Bueller .....
     
  24. TheItalianJob

    TheItalianJob Karting

    Dec 20, 2006
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    Lol
    Im going to try and make some time to finish this project. I still have everything in pieces.
    : (
     
  25. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    very cool
     

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