458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

I mean peak-grip. Italia, Scud, GT3 RS pull 1.4-1.5 (as measured by, say, Sport Auto). My scud does 1.5 as measured by Traqmate.

 

Well that would definitely be hyper car levels of performance!

 

It would be awesome to pull that level of g, but without significant downforce, or slicks, 2g is not going to happen. Anyone know how much downforce this thing generates? Doesn't look like it has much, but would be interesting to know.

 

Dunno but prob a few hundred lbs at 200 mph. It has definitely been designed for low drag, countered by the active spoiler when required under heavy braking.

 

There is, of course, the bottom of the car and diffuser design to consider. The exhaust outlets were high mounted to minimize weight but also to keep their turbulent airflow high to avoid mixing with re-joining air passing under the car, thereby maximizing downforce. Still, 1.8 doesn't seem feasible to me unless the mechanical grip of the hydraulic suspension is even more effective than they let on.

 

Oh and also centre of gravity will certainly factor. Apparently it's C of G is very low. After seeing the bare chassis, I can imagine so.

 

At 1.8 that car better have a set of really butt hugging seats......

 

Lol, yeah, and lipstick smudge-proof glass on the passenger side.

 

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/mclaren-mp4-12c-video-review/

Looks like Autocar has had the car for much longer than other reviewers.

 

so far the argument is (mostly) based on performance. What will be interesting to compare as well are the other aspects of car ownership - build quality, reliability, level of service from the dealers, how well the cars age (both in terms of depreciation and wear and tear).

I think the competition will be a good thing to get Ferrari to up their game.

 

... insane sh**t:


How fast is the new McLaren around the ’ring?

Steve Sutcliffe
As such, there is no official lap time, yet, but unofficially it’ll be very close to seven minutes flat.

Faster than a Porsche 911 GT2 RS, in other words; faster than just about anything with number plates and something that vaguely resembles a roof, in fact.


http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/anythinggoes/archive/2011/02/15/how-fast-is-the-new-mclaren-around-the-ring.aspx

 

Btw- The tifosi have always felt that Chris Harris doesn't love Ferrari and is a Porsche guy. Well here is his opinion.

http://jalopnik.com/#!5760248/how-ferrari-spins

 

Wow, that's pretty disgusting. There were rumors here and there that Ferrari does not play by the rules, but this is bad.

 

I agree, I've just read that from another section. It makes me as a fan (not as seriously as an owner) feel a bit betrayed. I assume Harris picked this time to launch his statements because the next few years will be when it's "cool" to hate on Ferrari. I'm not a fair weather fan so I still stand with the Scuderia but I want to see what Ferrari says. This could be the turning point of something really big with Ferrari.

 

I think it's worse than bad...it's deceptive. If I as a consumer read stats about times, handling...it's with the assumption the car is similar to one I'd be purchasing...otherwise what's the point? So what now? I should not believe any of the stats I read in the media?

 

I'm not arguing Harris' points or his perspective. He's a wonderful driver and one of the few Mag rats that can actually provide a solid, well delivered, article about high performance motor cars...

But exactly who's rules are Ferrari NOT playing by?

Let's be serious, the factories get to "make" their rules--and if Harris (or anyone else) doesn't like them, he can just say no to their cars and not review them.

And trust Ferrari is not unique here--there've been rumors for years about most performance manufacturers and their special "set ups" for magazine and auto rats reviews...indeed, many have said Porsche selects engines which conform to Euro rules, ie no more than 10% more or less than posted hp/torque by regulation--to be sure the specials provided to press are NOT 9.9% lower than printed stats .

Surely rumors were rife with Japanese makers performance versus stated over the past couple years, including much stronger engines, special tires and turned cars for ring performances.

Same has been said about Ford with its GT several years ago, and Chevy with Z1.

Who really knows, or cares?

The manufacturers own the cars, they provide "Factory Est" and original performance stats. And, they can decide by whom, under what rules and where their cars are driven, as well as, decide to pre test or tune for a specific track or temperature.

The Mag rats can then choose...driven them under the rules OR DON'T drive or be supported by the factory (and their cars). To be fair, most of these "writers" can't drive to 7/10ths anyway--save those like Harris, Plato or possibly Sutcliffe...

In the end, the Rats always get the final word--their printed review. And trust that these supposedly "unbias" articles are often "tainted" somewhat by personal (and editor) perpective...I mean, why is it that some rags "always" seem to find a way to say "xx" models--Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette--you name it--are better than the others...

It ain't because one factory sets up their cars with better tires tuned for a specific track...

 

Lots of people of do stuff like this. Nissan did thousands of laps at the Ring before they did their official lap in the GTR. They got an amazing run because their test driver became an expert at the Ring and then gave all the credit to the GTR. Also, some of these mega car companies let their advertising dollars to the work for them. I mean if journalists were to write what they really felt about the Bugatti and the LFA, then VW and Toyota would pull their advertising dollars, and the journos' mags would be in deep trouble.

Also, Ferrari has been doing this sort of thing for quite some time, so why is Chris ranting about it when a British competitor to the 458 comes on the scene?

 

Ditto...+100%.

 

However, these are exceptions clearly. It looks like Ferrari consistently cheats. As Chris says they are the only ones trying to control the test set-ups. Way beyond providing "hotter" cars. They are the only ones coming to the circuit to "optimize" the car. Nobody else is doing that. No wonder we see such a huge discrepancy in test times for Ferraris.

 

I have to say after several discussions on variety of topics here, including the blatant cheating by Ferrrari, I am slowly coming to the conclusion that there is not a lot of car guys on this forum. There is a strong whiff of quasi-religious devotion to Ferrari which goes really beyond the boundaries of common sense:

Cheating is fine b/c we enjoy being cheated by Ferrari?
High margins are fine since we want to make Ferrari as rich as possible?
and so on and so forth.

I love Ferraris, b/c they are great cars, but if somebody makes better ones, I will go with them no matter what badge it wears (ok, maybe excepting Corvette). I will never stand for a company that is out to systematically deceive their customers. It's plain disgusting and INEXCUSABLE.

 

My biggest question is this as well, I was probably naive in my earlier post but there have always been these kind of rumors. Why has Harris decided that he should have his "come to Jesus" moment. It's in the same way all those women "stepped forward" to say that they had slept with Tiger Woods. I would hate to say Harris would do this on national bravado, that wouldn't be probable because of his love for Porsche. And why choose Jalopnik? They might as well be the supermarket mags of cars, his sophistication seemed to drop 10 levels as well, but I guess Jalopnik doesn't care about that sort of thing. I think that it's just now the accepted hate Ferrari time again, it happens whenever a car comes out that inevitably beats Ferrari. It seems he was all too giddy to wait a day for the McLaren performance figures, which are all together irrelevant, to sink in so that he could take his punch.

 

Seriously. His review was the most hesitant in endorsing Macca over Ferrari. What possible benefit he could get out of it.

 

So what you are saying is that it is ok to be a cheat, to deceive your customers if another person/compnay does it. Great morals!

 

I have been in this discussion with you for a few days now and though I have had an opposing opinion feel that I have been fair. I have respected what you have said and hope that it goes two ways. Having said that... I'm sorry but to come onto a website that has the very name of a company on it and not expect some sort of protection or resistance is of itself disgusting and ignorant, and to call us "not car guys" just because we have a different feeling than yours is pretty arrogant.

I say this with respect even though I oppose your opinion

 

That was not the aritcle I was questioning, I was referring to his writings in Jalopnik