458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

Certainly, if you browse the Porsche forums, you will encounter various Porsche owners that are quite excited about the car. Some see it as a nice step up from their 911.

As I've postulated before, I'm sure there are more multi-millionaire Porsche owners in the world than there are Ferrari owners of any net worth level. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some pent-up demand there for a car like this.

 

Probably true. But the Mac is no threat to Porsche. The quantities are too low.

 

No doubt- that's why I said a very slight impact. The volume numbers Porsche are going after just surprise the heck out of me - never thought I'd see the day when they sold so many vehicles. I understand that Cayennes and Panameras now outsell the 911s and Boxters three to one.

 

Automobilrevue (CH) says the "unofficial" 0-300 kph time is ... 24.9!

I have to say I am getting tired of all those impossibilities. I can't wait for independent tests or the supertest.

 

geez- I didn't even know they kept stats for 0-300. how does 24.9 stack up compared to other cars?

 

We are talking about McLaren here, what did you expect? You also have to remember that they had no knowledge that they were in possession of confidential Ferrari information in 2007 and that Hamilton was passed under yellows by Trully in 2008...

 

Oh frak, here we go again!

 

It's mainly european sport, but here you go:
GT2 RS:
0-100 km/h - 3.5
0-200 km/h - 9.8
0-300 km/h - 28.9
100-300 km/h - 25.4
200-300 km/h - 19.1

ZR1:
0-100 km/h - 3.2
0-200 km/h - 10.3
0-300 km/h - 32.6
100-300 km/h - 29.1
200-300 km/h - 22.3

 

It is standard fare for a first-drive event like this to be put together by a manufacturer. All the journalists are flown in to what is typically a resort-type location and put up in a nice hotel and served great food. The organizers typically have pre-determined routes for them to follow and there is also some 'classroom' time where the engineers and marketing folk get to pepper them with the key points they should hit on in their articles. Then if the journalists are lucky and the car is performance oriented they'll usually get some track time with it. I have been to these events myself - I also used to work for a company who organized these events. Every manufacturer does this on new model introductions - the common term is 'Ride & Drive'.

What is not standard, and what Chris Harris' rant was centered on was this behavior happening later on when a journalist wants to borrow a car from the manufacturer's test fleet for their own evaluation and comparisons - taking it where they want, running it against whatever cars they want, and getting a generally unfiltered experience. Ferrari, according to what Chris wrote, prefers to exercise much more control over these scenarios than any other manufacturer - to the point of ridiculousness really - and serving up ringers in the process. I'm glad he chose to speak out about it because based on my understanding of the industry a lot of what they are doing is completely outrageous...

...because they think they can get away with it.

>8^)
ER

 

I have to say all those insane numbers are starting to bother me: 0-124 below 9 sec? Dunsford 1.17? Nordschleife 7 min flat? Now this 0-300 24.9 thing. I mean, we (including other car makers) either don't understand much about high-performance or somebody is hyping things big time.

It reminds me a bit of the early hype for GTR. Obviously it turned out to be actually pretty true although not as rosy as the early reports had it. Are we seeing the same thing here?

 

Veyron ...
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Much better looking car. I will wait for this to come out, by then the MP4 will be fully depeciated down to $120k if the Esprit doesn't work out:

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f332/hi-res-pics-new-lotus-esprit-93740/

And the Esprit's wheels are actually nice looking, unlike the MP4.

 

Good looking but Lotus will be Hard press to deliver
the build quality expected in this segment

 

Like the velcro on the leather under the e-brake on a 599?
If Lotus put some money into a flagship, I have the confidence it will be just as good as the chic lines of the McLaren.

 

+1,000

 

The Italia won Rob Report's Car of the Year... for what that's worth.

 

I think Lotus are going to fail

 

I think they have bit off a lot to chew.

 

Mark - you keep talking about the MP4's wheels. I hope you realize that the wheels are completely changeable. i.e. - that is the ONLY cosmetic aspect of the MP4 that can easily be change. If you are going to find a fault in the car find something a bit more relevant to ***** about!

 

I have said that the car currently is a dog in the looks department. So back to the wheels, are they going to knock off 5k-10k and let us add wheels of our chosing since they can't seem to design any decent looking one's?

I also highly doubt the numbers they are quoting for 0-125mph. 0-60 at 3 - 3.1, ok I can buy that, but not the other stats except top speed is prob. ok.

The race car version front end is much improved, but I still hate the back end, and I really can't find an angle view of the car that makes me want to fork out 290k? It is just too round everywhere, not any sharp edges like the new Esprit coming out in 2013.

The exhaust sound from their 3.5 liter V8 sounds too much like an American V8.

Want more?

 

You might be right, even though I love the new and older Esprit's. The new Evora S is getting rave reviews, but still only 350hp for 90k list.

I think IMO they should have just done the Esprit for starters, and see how it does, then maybe do the Elite.

All the models look very similar to me, which is a little disappointing except for the sedan, but I still wouldn't buy a Lotus sedan, no matter how great it is.

It sounds though with the changes they made to the new Evora S that they are indeed listening to their customers and the reviewers, but a better business plan would be to get their advice before doing a full production run.

 

There's a thread about Lotus' new ventures and I've commented nearly the same thing. I remain hopeful, but Bahar's plans are over-ambitious at best. I mean, having Bob Lutz as a consultant seems a little... "off" to me.

 

Another issue that hasn't been mentioned is that the MP4 is turbocharged. Most turbocharged cars at some point have issues with the cats clogging. I am assuming most owner's will not drive these cars enough to keep the cats maintenance free. What do you think replacement cats are going to be for this car? $$$ I have experience with three turbo charged exotics, and all three have had the cats fail in under 15k miles.

Like the Nissan GTR, the MP4 will be a great performing car, but like the Nissan, the looks still haven't grown on me. Why do you think Dodge is having such a hard time selling the ACR, there are still tons of new ones for sale. If Dodge would have made an aluminum version of their concept car, that raced in the SpeedGT series, I think it might still be in production??

Ferrari isn't perfect either, look at their new upcoming 612 replacement, looks like the BMW M coupe, a complete eye sore.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDzghm8Fx4k&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

Looks pretty good to me.

 

From the front view only, LOL