I have owned ferraris , 3 models since 1985. I love track events and just taking them to work. My last was a 2004 360 challenge stradale which I loved. I sold it to pay biils, now i can get back into cars, around town and track days. Just saw and drove a 2010 Porsche GT3!! Wow! Certainly not the passion that Ferrari brings, but excites anyway...[ how can I explain the Ferrari Tattoo???], but incredible ride and less expensive maintenance!!! The bullet proof motors and warranty of porsche is something to talk about. I realize the flack I will get here esp. after owning 3 ferraris and NEVER a Porsche. We see Porsche every block, rarely a Ferrari, but, you cannot fault the engineering of the Porsche. OK, let me have it!!
Bulletproof except for the rear main seals, dropped pistons, bad syncros, etc. No car is bulletproof on the track and trust me, PCNA will deny your warranty claim as fast as anyone else. Been there done that.
For heavy track use. 2010 GT3 For light track use. 2010 GT3 For no track use. Stradale Although they look similar on paper (weight, power, etc), the 2010 GT3 is just faster, handles better, brakes better, so it crushes not only the Stradale, but the F430, and it is a close call with the Scuderia and F458 Italia (for track use). Given the low price difference between the 2010 GT3 and GT3 RS go for the RS, I have seen it on a racetrack with capable drivers, they are at the top. I love the Stradale tough.
yes, the passion of the ferrari is still there, at 60 yrs. of age, I cannot get rid of that feeling, however, at this age, economics r important... economy is not the same as a few yrs. ago. The GT3 and RS seem to be incredible cars... I need some real world experiences, to bash them!!!! Of course I posted this on the Porsche site and all said that the gt3 outshines the ferrari... I need your opinions!!!!
rad, the question i have for you is regarding what modifications you find necessary to make the gt3 a dependable track car. from what i understand, very few modifications are necessary to the scuderia, such as the few items you have done to your car...sways and challenge shims for aggressive alaignment specs for track? please fill me/us in, as i believe that you have not done much to your car from it's factory spec to make it a real track terror(with you behind the wheel, of course!ha), versus the modifications a gt3 and rs need to make it track worthy. from what i have read on the porsche boards, the porsche factory LSD only functions for 3 track events before it is blown, the brakes have to be swapped to steel rotors if they are ceremic optioned, then all the suspension "dog bones", and every other ERP, GMG or SharkWerks piece needs to be installed to keep the alaignment in check and car handling the way it really should from the factory. i am not here to pass judgement, i am actually here asking a question to find out if the information that i have accumulated through months of reading posts on rennlist and 6speedonline.com forums contain, in fact, the correct info for necessary parts needed to transform a stock car into something that would be equivilent to a scuderia (with much fewer mods necessary). I know that you have had both, and have extensive experience in all of the mods done to both of your cars, so please shed some light on which, if any, are the real mods we might need to consider for either the porsche or ferrari in able to ask it to perform track days.
I've had both, 2 GT3's (currently '08 RS) and a CS (also Scud for a short time). Have tracked all of them, including about 1000 track miles on the CS. All are great hybrid use cars. No modifications necessary for any of them aside from possibly an alignment tweek. All fast enough if you don't take yourself too seriously (after all, we are not getting paid to drive these things). My take, if you can only have one and WILL track it quite a bit, get the GT3. Just much cheeper to run hard and easier to live with overall. If cost is a factor whatsoever, this is the best option. However, if you don't plan to track it hardly at all, and drive mostly on nice weekends for fun on the street, it is hard to beat the Stradale in that price range. The car is just stunning, and the buzz you get from thrashing that screaming Italian supermodel just cannot be matched by a GT3.
And you might bear in mind the fastest stock DE car for the money right now is the C6 Z06. I was never a Corvette fan, but this car has made me a believer, at least as far as track day use goes. You can buy an early low mile example for under 40k, and they are faster than the GT3 (even the RS) and the F430 or CS on the track. I still own an F430, and had an Elise that I tracked for 3 years, and I am very impressed with the Z06 package. Upgrade the brakes and just run it, it's amazing. - Gary
The GT3, GT3 RS and Scuderia are dependable track cars, the Stradale has the stuff with the valve adjustment that requires $$$ maintenance, and that car is slow in straight line compared to the 2010 GT3 / GT3 RS, it bothers me to get easily passed by faster cars despite of driving better, getting higher exit speeds, braking later, I don't consider the Stradale track worthy for today's standards of performance. The GT3, GT3 RS and Scuderia need good brake fluid (I use Castrol SRF) and track pads. For heavy track use, steel brakes make more sense and there are options for the 3 cars. The LSD in the Scuderia has proven strong, and the clutch has exceed my expectations. my 04 GT3 was on its 3rd LSD by 8,000 miles, my 07 RS needed one badly but I did not keep it long enough to get it fixed. The E-diff in the Scuderia is still the original unit, it works excessively well, and when the time comes to replace it, if the car is out of warranty, very likely I will get the Drexler unit that saves 44 lbs and it's a lot cheaper and stronger, but the e-diff has worked well, much better than my (2) GT3s. The Scuderia needs a lot stiffer springs due to the lack of suspension travel, and the tedious ride on the bump stops, the GT3/GT3 RS have more suspension travel, and rarely bottom out. The GT3 with track pads (many brands), track brake fluid, a Guards or OSGiken LSD and track wheels/tires is all that is needed. That will make it reliable for track use. But it can still get better (performance wise) as it is a little heavy, and it has too much rubber in the suspension. These days a 2010 GT3 RS with low miles and nice options is a $130k car, but after adding all the suspension improvements and LSD, the car touches the $150k number. A Scuderia is on the $180k range, and I think the extra $30k are worth every penny, as the car is a lot faster in straight line, it is lighter, and the suspension improvements are so cheap (less than $500). I would ignore the Stradale for track use, that car never posted fast lap times anywhere. The F1 was in the early stages of development and it has proven to be $$$ to maintain, same thing with the valve jobs.
Agree, but having driven a few Vettes, they always feel numb and twitchy, something to do with the leaf spring suspension. Katech and a few others convert these cars to full coil-overs, so they get better. Good track seats are available. The V8 is a dry-sump engine, the transmission is strong, aftermarket brakes are affordable, I think it is a great car and fast. I have been on track with many flavors of C6 Z06 from stock (moving chicanes) to modified 650Hp with Aero, trick suspension and slicks, they do well. The Viper ACR needs a dry sump system, I prefer the Viper over the C6 Z06, that's the top dog out there for street cars used for track days.
But it sure is pretty BTW, good advice in your post. The only thing I would add is that IMO, these cars (GT3, GT3RS and Scuderia) should be used minimally on the track. They are road cars with some track orientation and are expensive to fix and unsafe, no fire suppression, no cage, etc... So, if I were going to do more than a few weekends, I would pick up a 360 challenge or older Porsche cup car and have fun more safely.
F430GT- No valve adjustment required on the CS, hydraulic lifters. Or were you referring to cambelt changes? Taz Terry Phillips
Thanks for the correction. I checked my 360 CS purchase spreadsheet (I was shopping for a 360CS instead of a GT3 RS, got the GT3 RS instead). Potential maintenance cost pushed me away.
I second the advice with respect to a cup or challenge car with respect to heavy track use. I think the original poster was referring more to a street car that can be used occasionally at the track. In the end, it all comes down to your budget. You need to have a budget in the multiple six figures if you plan to do serious track work in something with a Ferrari badge on the hood (Porsche slightly less).
Worth noting you can in the UK pickup a used 430 Scudera GT3 racing car for a good price, I've seen them starting at circa £100k, [$162k]. I have been v.impressed with their specs, 600hp on tap and with the FIA ballast removed, a very satisfactory 2,425 lbs (1100kgs) Kerb weight. Very very Nice track day toy! Really, a 360 challenge wouldn't know which way this car went...
I'm surprised at 'maintenance' being a worry, the biggest worry is actually crashing one, or someone crashing into you. The rear engine lid alone with its plexiglass, carbon dressings and carbon stays is a whole box full of $. Not to mention rear quarters, exhausts, fenders, panels, etc. Every car on the track will eat its way through pads, tires and servicing items like ball joints, bushes and drop links. All the road going fcars are too softly setup for the track. Maintenance wise, the CS is not so bad to maintain (provided you swap the CCM's over to steel's). Even a spare engine isn't that expensive these days if the worst should happen.
I am considering of getting a Z06 for track, but heard that the dry sump needs to be modified as some owners are blowing up their engines when running R-componds.
I believe the '09+ Z06's have the ZR-1's larger dry-sump that keeps the oil pressure up in high-G, left hand turns that can affect the older C6 Z's.
I own an 07 Z06. It is a simple fix with a larger tank from Lingenfelter. RobD is right, I do think they come with a larger oil reservoir now. FWIW, it takes a 1.5G LH turn for longer than 4 seconds to get the oil issue on the stock system.
I added the larger oil reservoir to my '07, an easy and relatively inexpensive mod (under $300 if you do the install yourself). - Gary
I was very pleasantly surprised at how the steering came alive at the track, and I had no "twitchy" feeling at all. I came out of an Elise, so I was really afraid steering feel would be awful by comparison, but I had no complaints at all. If Elise steering equals 100, the Z06 is 90 and the F430 is 92. - Gary
All the talk about "which CAR is faster' is basically mute. ALL of these cars are more capable than most drivers. The last time I had my SL55 out with the other instructors I dusted an NSX, reeled in a GT3 (until he spun off from the pressure), and held station with a Z06 (until my brakes said bye-bye). I have run down Gallardos, and 997 turbos in my slightly modded E46 M3. Honestly, buy what you want and take some driver's schools. The CS is extremely capable, and is huge fun, and I believe will hold value as the years go by. The GT3 is brilliant, but it will depreciate like a brick. I like the Porsche, but I love my CS.
this is exactly how i feel also. i have 3 pcars but looooooooooove the cs. if you track a cs you'll be the bomb, everyone has a gt3. buy the car that speaks to you viscerally.
Every time I track the CS, I have a whole group of new friends. It is definitely a crowd pleaser. But more than that, it just a great package that Ferrari put together.... and it has that certain something. That intangible something, that makes it very special.
