The official MP4-12C Thread

I am starting to move in that direction as well. Too many unanswered questions from the factory/dealer....too many unknowns about the REAL weights and performance, especially of a USA car vs Euro car....too little from Woking in terms of the little things like factory tour, specing the car at the factory, euro delivery, etc. I think it may be too early in the production process and I'm considering moving my slot from 2011 to 2012 delivery to allow the factory to get their s*#t together and to actually see a few in person and drive one.

Honestly, I don't care if it's faster than a 458 or a Porsche 911 GT2, etc. That's a tail-chasing game...the next faster car is always around the corner....ALWAYS. I love the technology, but not sure it's the game changer I thought it would be. After all, my 2007 SL55 has a fairly similar hydraulic suspension.

I'm totally on the fence....will likely make my final decision in the next couple of weeks.

I, too, want one....and have been following the development very closely since it was announced in Sept 2009....but just lots of questions still with no responses. Kind of a bummer.

 

I dont think the car will be revolutionary on its own.
IE almost everything has been done elsewhere or a road car except for the cognitive braking.
What IS revolutionary is putting it all togeather at this price point.

PS; Mclaren Orange is THE color.

 

I'm still on the fence but am leaning towards getting it. My concerns are:

1. New Company production line. Ferrari has been making road cars for decades. Mclaren built a 100 F1's in the 1990's. The SLR is more MB then McLaren.
2. Turgo charged engine's long term durability.
3. New engine maker. The car has only a 2 year warranty with it? That is ridiculous in today's world. If you think your engineering is that much superior then stand by it with a 4 year warranty. Hell Hyundai gives a 10 year warranty!

I am a bit concerned about the weight. But I don't think 30-50 lbs makes much of a difference when you are talking about a 3100 lb. car with 592 HP/443 Lb-ft of TQ.

Finally - regarding the ZR1. I looked at one last week. Great specs but it has serious traction issues. Sure they put in launch control in 2010 but that doesn't still compensate for FE/RWD set up. Plus the body on frame design kinda turns me off.

Still debating between Volcano Orange(which kinda looks like Rosso Scuderia) Vs. McLaren Orange.

 

I have not heard anything about a 2 year warranty? Can you post details please.

 

First of all, let me say that I have a C6 Z06 and I love it. Incredible performance and yes, on the track, there are few cars that can outperform it, period. I also have a Lotus Exige Cup car, but the thing is a bloody go-kart. I don't find any comparison to a Lotus as relevant at all. The curb weights you are quoting for the Z06 sound very ambitious to me, but I wouldn't be shocked given how it is constructed. Can you provide references for actual, measured, stock cars?

That said, can you elaborate on what curb weights and quantum performance you are expecting for the 12C? I'm not arguing, I'm just curious. Getting significantly lower weight than it is would be stepping into Gumpert Apollo and Koenigesegg territory and those cars cannot be seriously considered as market competitors. Neither are either of them even close to being usable on a daily basis.

Also performance-wise, what are your expectations exactly? It does seem to me that being quantifiably faster than any other similarly priced supercar is a quantum leap. I, too, am awaiting some independent tests and direct comparison lap times, but again I'm just wondering what level of performance you are expecting? Thanks.

 

A 2 year warranty would be a deal killer for me. I'm going to ask my dealer to verify that.

 

Its a Carbon fibre frame that they hang body panel on. There are no street Carbon monocoques that I am aware of.

Real men choose Mclaren Orange. But Volcano is so pretty.
No preassure.

 

I'm also on the fence and will not place a final order until I see, hear and drive one. I think it's crazy to spend that kind of money on a brand new car model without doing so. I'm happy, as you said, to wait for a 2012 model.

 

Agreed, plus all the reviewers seem to be going apesh!t over how comfortable the ride is. I have to experience this for myself, but if it is true then that is amazing and very valuable to me. I have never been in any supercar, Ferrari or otherwise, that can be described as comfortable, let alone better than an E-Class Merc. My Vette is the worst offender - I hate the ride in that thing anywhere but on a racetrack.

 

Great tip, thanks.

 

You can look up independent weight tests on roadandtrack.com: z06 3325, zr1 3365.

 

Should you need any more evidence that this is a very impressive supercar:
http://tinyurl.com/5vbtrl8

 

Great find, pretty remarkable stuff. The more I hear about the car, the more excited I get (maybe except the 2-year warranty).

 

Arguing triviality's to decide if you want this car is a waste of time. Either you understand it is a bespoke McLaren masterpiece at the top of the food chain or you don't. It is the equivalent of the new BMW S1000R superbike in that McLaren is a newcomer to the affordable supercar market and their first offering is dominant.

Deciding you don't want it just because of the color selection, or because McLaren weighed it without oil in the sump seems absurdly myopic.

 

The Chris Harris - Evo video review, previously linked by fire_n_ice


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2JVR0mAzjQ[/ame]


Automobile magazines video review


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufj5GUu0XCE[/ame]



Personally, whether you like the car, or the guy himself, Chris's review is one of the best, and most informative, I have ever watched! I wonder whether this car had the standard, or lightweight exhaust?

 

Is the 2yr warranty confirmed?? I can't find a reference to that anywhere.

 

It really is an outstanding review, the way he goes through the settings and describes exactly what he is feeling at each stage. You can literally see him re-calibrating his senses and the very idea of what a "car" (not just a sports car) is capable of doing. "Three cars in one", that's incredible. It's like you get an everyday cruiser AND a world-beating supercar at the same time, plus a more comfortable 430 just thrown in for kicks. And he still seems genuinely stunned by the outright speed, which is encouraging given the roster of cars he drives on a regular basis.

 

Can somebody also confirm is that the Graphite Grey - the dark colored one in the Autimobile vid? It's looking tasty to me, although I'm iffy on the maroon accented interior.

 

By the way, fire, remember our little discussion about how playful the car was going to be given the hydraulic suspension? Looking at Monkey throwing the car left and right and drifting all over the place, it seems to me, that our fears might be unfounded.

 

Did anyone notice that in the Evo movie, the car seems pretty tame in all but the race mode? I wonder if this suspension is actually too good. Everyone decribes how smooth the ride is.

I've not driven a 458 but there is no way I would call the F430 tame just driving it around town. I rather like the feeling you get. It worries me about the 458 too.

I think it's that sportscar feeling that may be lost with these fancy electronic/ magnetic/ hydraulic suspension systems. Yes they are fast but they are also too removed from your normal life experiences. I actually don't want life to be too perfect. I want to feel these bumps in the road.

Also, I haven't seen anyone turn off the nanny controls in the 12C yet. They put it In race mode but that just sets it up to be the most aggressive of the electronic settings. How well does this car work with everything turned off? I've seen tests of it done with the Italia but not the Mac as far as I can see. I would have thought Evo would have.

I'm not being a hater here. I'm just trying to figure out this car and posting some questions.

 

No problem, these are all very reasonable concerns. We (ok, some of us) had those concerns, too. Especially considering they are forcing you to enter secret nuclear codes to turn off the electronics. Still, I am getting a bit more relaxed about it now, after hearing from both Monkey and Chris Chilton from CAR that you are getting quite a bit of steering feel and the car can be drifted with gusto, yet the car stays progressive and approachable. Whether, this is genius ESP calibration or the beauty of the chassis itself is still left to be discovered as you point out.

On the other hand, it's pretty clear to me that the high limits of Italia are greatly aided by electronics and without them, the car is not such a peach.

 

An interesting question and one that I've thought about. But honestly, no, I don't think there is any disadvantage to having the suspension be compliant in this fashion. As long as the steering is precise and provides feedback, the damping should be as good as possible. As I've mentioned, I hate driving supercars on the road. They would all have a better ride if there was a way to make vertical articulation of the wheels isolated from roll control. On the track, the benefit is even more critical as it has a direct effect on the amount of traction available and the ability to put the power down even when the surface is imperfect. Hence, Schuey's input on recent Ferrari road cars.

The caveat, and what krzys is referring to in the post above, is that I definitely expected there to be some disadvantage as the car transitions from straight line, uncoupled damping, to significant roll stiffness in the corners. It appears that this is definitely a new sensation to Harris, but as krzys points out, he certainly doesn't seem to have any trouble getting playful oversteer out of the car.

 

Well in the Italia's defense -- and probably the 12C too -- they are really pushing the adhesion levels on the tires at high speeds.
The brake steer also makes me curious about how the car feels. It's a clever idea but I wonder about how it makes you feel in non-track driving. It seems to be an odd notion of how you expect a car to handle. Yes, it's fast. But is it really good for the driver experience? Or is it just "odd"?

I guess until someone here gets a chance to actually drive one, we won't really know. Are any dealers willing to give test drives or is that out of the question.

 

I've thought about that, too, and come to the conclusion that there isn't really anybody on fchat whose opinion will matter, compared to my own. Most guys on this forum have driven a handful of supercars and are highly biased. Furthermore, the vast majority have never even been on a racetrack in any car. So, for me at least, there impressions will be irrelevant. I've driven a few more than that, but still nowhere near as many as somebody like Harris. So yeah, until I get to drive for myself, his experience is probably about as good as it's going to get, information-wise.

Don't get me wrong- I would live to be able to drive it before putting down the dough. But as of now, I don't think that is feasible.

 

I suppose that's the leap of faith that not everyone will take. It hurts Ferrari too but people I think know more what to expect -- good and bad.

I'm still very curious about the dealer service and warranty issues. I find it kinda hard to believe people would put money down to order one without at least knowing the plan for how it's going to be serviced in their area, the service costs and schedule, and warranty.

But then I suppose some have enough money to not worry about these things. For me when dealing with a totally new car maker, it would be high on my list.