The official MP4-12C Thread

Great- thanks for the heads up.

 

Here is the kind of Volcano Orange pic that McLaren should have led with, instead of the original press images. Look at the difference. The airbrushed press image doesn't even have some of the creases and other detail at the front of the car around the license plate area and sides of the splitter. Bigtime fail on behalf of the marketing dept, but oh well what's done is done.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

That's a good point. That's why the car looks so much better in person.

 

Have a patient here from the UK who's bringing me the article tuesday. I'll report back.

 

The mpg may avoid the gas guzzler tax which is $3,000 here in CA....can use that $$$ for some CF bits LOL.

 

I know I should give up on the weight thing, really I do. But if we want to consider published curb weights, then here is what I have found.

Car and Driver MP4-12C: 3200 lbs

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q1/2012_mclaren_mp4-12c-first_drive_review

Motor Trend MP4-12C: 3100 lbs (est per mfg)

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/1104_2012_mclaren_mp4_12c_drive/specs.html

C6 Z06

Chevrolet itself: 3175 lb

http://www.chevrolet.com/2010corvette-z06/features-specs/

Motor Trend: 3169 lb

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0512_exotic_sport_coupes_comparison/specs_price.html

BUT (and as only GM can do) the 2011 "Carbon Edition Z06" is heavier per MT at 3252 lb:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1102_2011_chevrolet_corvette_z06_test/specs.html

Road and Track: 3160 lb

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/evil-twins/evil_twins-3a_2009_chevrolet_corvette_z06_vs._zr1_page_6

GM Hight Tech Performance: 3130 lb

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/features/0505htp_2006_z06_corvette_feature/index.html

Corvette Forum reports of measured weight: 3130 with 1/2 tank fuel:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/1586204-z06-actual-weight.html

I still need to get off my butt and weigh my own car, but it sure looks like the MP4-12C is not going to be a heck of a lot lighter than the Z06.

But like I've made so clear - I am not the market for this car. In fact, I am not really a market at all - more of a freak.

Oh, and the Z06 has no gass guzzler tax. I sound too much like a Vette fanboy and maybe I am to some extent, it is just that with all that carbon fiber and magnesium and other weight reduction tech in the McLaren, I am not bowled over with the results. It seems as if they used the weight reduction of essential components to leave room for comfort and amenities and end up at over 3000 lbs.

 

Me too, funny how the human mind works

 

agree with the updated picture of the volcano orange,this is the colour im having after my dealer told me they had slighty darkened it from the first promo car

 

also have to agree with the insurance,Mclaren have spent alot of time with the insurance companies,explaining their crash structures and ease of repair,hence i have a quote of
£1900 with a £2,000 excess which is fairly standard for a car of this value,still having a problem getting a higher excess for track days though !!

 

These are the ones I have. Sorry most of the text isn't legible, but the originals have been downsized. Is there a way to upload high res images here?
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

If all else fails...
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

No problem, your point is a good one. The exact curb weights are never going to be known with any accuracy (since there are so variables, like options, as well as too many different sources of data i.e. different magazines, etc.).

I prefer to think of weight in a range. For example, 3000-3200 lbs is definitely a VERY light car, if that car has electric seats, aircon, full carpeting, leather, etc. Yes, the Z06 is probably in that range, which is a testament to the Corvette development group. In fact, I think that is more of an outstanding achievement on their part than a failure of a more expensive car that is in the same range.

Getting too far above 3200 lbs is where I am less thrilled. Which is why the weight of the 458 (and the fact that it is heavier than the 430 that it replaces) was a surprise to me. Still, for a luxory version of a sports car, the 458 is still a light car.

Dipping below 3000 lbs, I believe, is practically impossible for a luxury version of a full-sized sports car in this price range, that conforms to road safety standards. Definitely, McLaren could make a 2600 lb 12C, but the entire body would have to be composite/carbon fibre and you'd have to chuck all the amenities. Plus it would cost them too much and therefore the selling price would be out of the segment's range. Again, I reference the Gumpert Apollo, which is just not practical on many levels, including selling price. So I think the reason your expectations can't be met is that there is a natural floor to the weight range of these things in this day and age, due to all these factors.

The irony, here, is that despite the 12C being a full luxo version, it appears that its performance may come very close the the Gumpert. If that proves true, then that will certainly be a quantum leap in performance of one definition.

For yourself, why not just trailer your Z06 or store it at a track? If I can find storage for mine, I will probably keep it and convert it into a racecar.

 

Welcome to the club.

 

Can somebody also post CAR and EVO scans? Thanks.

 

I agree the car is magnificent overall - and the person willing to fork over a quarter million is going to insist on some luxury. After all, how are you going to explain to a sane passenger that you paid that kind of money for a noisy, rough-riding beast of a machine that does not come into its own until driven hard and then it is terrifying.

Ferrari managed that with the F40, although it is priced well beyond the MP4-12C.

As for a track-only car, then I want REAL lightness and under 2000 lbs and not many production cars can get there. Working on that independently with an Elise based car, but that is another topic altogether and I have been enough of a troll.

I am dying to hear about production car experience from those taking the plunge. I think I have about exhausted the bench racing I can do.

 

Email sent.

 

Would love to hear more about the Elise project when the time comes. My Exige Cup could definitely use some more oomph.

While it is in McLaren's best marketing interest to focus on the carbon MonoCell as the key differentiator, I have a suspicion that the engineers are secretly more enamoured with the suspension. I think when all is said and done, it is the suspension that is going to have the largest impact on outright performance deltas vs. the competition. Not sure how they are measuring the claim of 25% more lateral grip than the rivals, but the compliancy of the damping must play a huge factor there. I believe it is also the reason why the car may easily outrun many other supercars that have an even better power to weight ratio.

 

The stiffness of the tub is a big part of how light the suspension pieces can be. Hence, additional gains in compliance. In the engineering briefing posted on pistonheads, they mention this issue explicitly.

It will also mean, that just copying the hydraulic set-up might not be so easy for Ferrari or other competitors.

 

If your brave/talented/rich enough, the 1200 hp Hennessey Venom GT looks amazing, it's based on an Elise. I watched a video about it on Jay Leno's garage recently.

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/2011-hennessey-venom-gt/1263368/

 

There was a video on R&T recently introducing the car. It was actually pretty disappointing. Basically, the car can go in straight line pretty well, but they said it would take another year to optimize handling. This is the biggest myth out there: piling on power does not necessarily make a fast car.

 

Yes, for sure the synergy between the MonoCell and the hydraulic suspension is important. I just think that the compliance of the damping is difficult to understand (hence not easy to market) but massively important. Formula One engineers are always trying to make damping more compliant to allow drivers to put down the power earlier on corner exit and keep the car settled through high speed corners (therefore allowing even higher cornering speeds). Plus, the use of tuned mass dampers to control the vibration and pitch of the chassis, which I believe is now banned in F1. People tend to think of racecars needing to be as stiff as possible, suspension-wise, but in fact they are always trying to soften the ride within a given tolerance for roll control. Chassis stability has a huge impact on cornering speed, as well as driver confidence- which further increases performance.

The other thing I'm picking up in some of these review videos is that the car has GTR-like traction, not only in the dry but the wet, too. Again, I think the hydraulic system is shining through, here, allowing the tires to stay in contact with the road over imperfections.

 

Sure, you are right, the whole story of the car might be ultimately the suspension. It might play a role at the 'ring. Even though, despite the general impression, Nordschleife is not very bumpy, but it has has wild camber changes and compliance will count for a lot.