What is happening to Ferrari??

+1
The 458 was widely criticized, even after in-the-flesh pictures were posted.

LOL!!!
What can I say, I'm a very influential guy in Ferrari circles.

 

I remember posting some photos from the US reveal party in LA and people were still complaining STRONGLY about the 458.

The most common reply to the pics as more and more images came out was "well, I'll hold my judgement until I see one".

 

I love the Gran Turismo too.

 

ferrari doesn't even make real manuals anymore what do you expect. terrible styling is sure to follow. i don't mind the 458 or 599 but really they don't have any modern cars I truly love. The california sucks and the ff is an abortion.

 

Are you suggesting there is a correlation between a car's beauty and whether or not it comes with three pedals? Not so sure this science is tight.

 

You mean it looks like a fetus, or did you mean it's an aberration?

 

'A bloody f*cking mess', is my read.

 

I don't recall revulsion of the form of the 360, and my own displeasure concerns it's bulk and volume. It certainly was a departure from the established vocabulary, perhaps tasking some more than others at the first, but it was and is a tasteful and sophisticated design expressing both beauty and power, even using a couple of cues from the old days without artifice or vulgarity. ...Quite different from the departures of taste and style befalling the Enzo, or lack of originality and taste tarnishing the excellent engineering of the 599, Cali 2+, and the latest excrescence, the FF.

The 430, otoh, rather than follow the 348-355 evolutionary path, just tacked dis-congruous boy-racer elements from the Enzo onto a simple and elegant form.

The 308 GT4 deserves its due: Almost nothing from that era of 'folded-paper design' has aged nearly as well.

 

...Stronger damnation I've yet to hear.

 

Remember the polarization among tifosi as well as the press over the Testarossa. Do you really think Mr. Ferrari gave a rats a**? Aapprently not since it was produced until well after his demise.

It's easy to whine about products and act as if this one instance is terminally unique but is otherwise nothing of the sort against the backdrop of history. Ferrari is largely still Ferrari. They will change with the times but I believe strongly that Signori Montezemolo and Signori Ferrari and the other Ferrari offspring that work at Ferrari are as much as ever in touch with the vision of the founder. Ferrari too must change to be viable, but it will still be Ferrari. Purists choose their territory and carve it out, so let them do so, they have every right to do so. But Ferrari is a "going concern".....not a rigid stalwart of self-righteous indignity to anything outside of Ferrari. If it were it would have died with the Commendatore. Thank God it didn't and doesn't appear to be in danger of doing so any time soon precisely because of these examples of development. Imagine if they there were still making the 512....great car, but it would be a dinosaur, even with hand-beaten panels by Scaglietti.

 

1. Lighten up guys. Everyone's entitled to an opinion and that's what the forum is about. No need to criticize each other, just the car..http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

2. Remember the Z4? Panned, Blasted. Loathed even. Heavily criticized by many including me. Over time, I kind of like it. Still prefer the Z3 though. Although the Z4 Coupe is pretty cool, at least in person.

3. Rear 3/4 view of the FF looks a like it might be ok, but very color dependant. Still, I don't like the styling. I get the 4wd because of Hp, but the styling is very Panamera. I guess I don't like Ken's style. It doesn't matter which company he is working for, but pf is tagged with this for ever. I do want to see it in person, it may look much better than the photos.. one can only hope..

 

OK, let's go back.

From Sept 2009 on the 458:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258044&highlight=458+poll

70 percent approval, 19 percent disapproval, 11 percent don't know.

From this weekend on the FF:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311219

70 percent thought it was "heinous" or were indifferent.


Of course there are going to be people who love or hate any design, but the 458 was overwhelmingly accepted by FChat users. I doubt you're going to see a more gaping disparity in any poll here.

 

yes this is what i am implying

 

Go back and look at the comments. In particular, some of the same, extremely vocal "design police" that have been posting here. That poll didn't start out that way at all. You're looking at a poll over time. The first blush was not so positive to the "I hate everything Ferrari haters" often seen on this thead. It certainly was not universally loved. How many people stated after seeing the 458 at a dealer exhibition that they "changed their minds"?

BTW: The stats on the FF can be twisted anyway you want. The way I read it, 117 like it or are indifferent while 79 hate it. I put part of this down that it's not a swoopy hot 2 seat sports car. A four passenger front engine car cannot have those proportions. The 612 has the same problems.

I'm not trying to start a fight here. But, you must admit it gets a bit tiresome when we see the same tired "I hate it" posts from people who will NEVER buy this car and find pleasure in stating negatives before they even look at the object they are reviewing.

Is it so hard to look at the car first before people have to shoot their mouths off? Is that too much to ask?

Apparently, the Fchat design police think so.

I've said about a 1000 times already. These photos suck. If you want me to judge the press released photos, the photos get an F.

If you want me to say I'll pass judgement on this design based on those photos, I say "forget it". I can tell it's much better looking than this because the Czech photos start to give it a dimension you can't get from the originals.

It should not surprise anyone that Ferrari views Fchat as a joke when it comes to feedback. With such careful thought as we give anything here, no wonder they don't listen.

 

Interesting discussion. I agree that we have to wait until we have a real look at the FF before making a final judgment. However, it is one of these rare times when a vast majority looks at a new Ferrari pictures and does not like it. I remember when the 612 was released and it was whoaaaaaa! Same thing for the California, the 599, ...

I happen to like a Ferrari with 4 seats. Fond memories of the 456.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, yes. BUT there are lines, style, class that work for almost everyone, that's why a beautiful car is recognized as such by almost everyone all around the world.

Well, not happy about the new direction taken by Ferrari, first with the 458 (style too close to a racing car, not practical, not classy enough) and now the FF. Hopefully, they are going to keep on releasing beautiful vehicles such as the 599, the California, etc... Looking forward to seeing the FF in person of course.

 

^ the 456 is what I consider one of the best looking Ferrari front engines, much better than the 550 in the looks department.

 

I think part of the problem is people don't use pens and pencils. Everything gets digitized, and the car gets harder edges when it goes through the computer.

Although, there are some nice things done in the Ferrari design language floating around today. I believe there is a dutchman who has posted on ferrarichat, and he's done some nice renderings. I'm not sure if it is the same guy or someone different, but there was a 599 that was turned into a modern 250 GTO that looked pretty good. The GG550 was better than the FF. Alfa turns out pretty cars.

 

I design on the computer for a living. Its not the computer. Its just as easy, possibly easier, to design something with soft curves as hard edges.

 

Computer design the problem? Not at all. Check out ZBrush, Modo, Maya, etc... Those programs work from organic modeling and design to hard as any texture imaginable.

The problem is the designers, this isn't fashion design. They are treating this business as such. Ferrari like Porsche or lamborghini has to stay focus and build upon their own traditional styles, as an evolution because if they don't this will have these companies mixed in with the rest of the crowd and the DNA of visual recognition and mystique will be lost.

 

Good perspective.

Well said.

 

Actually, I disagree also --- but its a good theory.

I used to think that all the folded sheet metal designs of the 70's were because of the introduction of magic markers in making sketches. It's easier to draw straight surfaces with markers than curved. Before markers, people used chalk and pencil.

But, I was wrong. It was just the fashion of the time. Someday, "X 1/9" and Lotus Elite shapes may come back into vogue. You can never tell.

 

It all boils down to the guy at the top. Luca appears to want to control everything but his judgment and decisions are being clouded. To compare, look at what a guy like Steve Jobs does for Apple? Most everything becomes a winner with him over seeing things. Looks like Luca is stopping Ferrari from being the Ferrari that everyone expects.

 

Everyone on Fchat that is...

 

I always thought it was limitations in the steel stamping process (of the time) ?

 

The point about Montezemolo wanting to be Mr. Ferrari's "successor" rather than handling a priceless treasure and that Ferrari has come to reflect his personal taste...that's an interesting comment. Let me float a question or two as I'm very much in the learning mode on this forum.

1. Handling a priceless treasure and being Enzo's successor; are these mutually exclusive? Could he not both be his successor and get right whatever it is that he's doing wrong?

2. What about Piero Ferrari? How does he figure into this equation? I suppose there would be those that would accuse him of not getting it right as well.

3. Why is there this casual assumption that somebody has gotten it badly wrong to begin with? Isn't it possible that if Enzo were still around that people would inevitably think..."this is not the 'real' Ferrari like it used to be."

4. Just because someone, or several someone's, don't like the cars, is it implicit in that judgement call that someone has gotten it wrong? And this just because a car doesn't appeal to someone?

If Ferrari had folded five years after Mr. Ferrari died, then someone would have SURELY gotten something wrong. If Ferrari were now producing crossovers, then it would be a safer assumption that they had lost their place on grounds of different vehicle production, but they haven't. Ferrari is more successful as a company now than it's ever been, and is consistently producing radical vehicles on the very edge of sports car performance that are most assuredly influenced by racing. That's what Mr. Ferrari did to begin with, even if the connection was a little more immediate (e.g. the 250 GTO which could be driven to the track, race well, then driven home). Ferrari is unlike, by a long-shot, any other car manufacturer in the world. Even if they weren't as expensive as they are, they would still be very distinctive and unique. They have not gone beyond four seater cars, they have not made a four door car, they've stuck, objectively speaking, to the build principles of the founder. That seems like someone has both succeeded Mr. Ferrari well and reflected their own taste in a manner that is perfectly consistent with having done said succession. Montezemolo was the race team manager and worked directly with Mr. Ferrari and has worked in the Agnelli organization virtually all of his adult life.

I wonder who could have gotten it 'righter' and specifically......how would they have done so???? If a few more people liked the FF would that completely dismiss the above discussion? I really don't think so.