Performance upgrades for 360

That's why the F430 has a different engine. Ferrari took the 5 valve 355/360 engine as far as it could go otherwise they would have found that easy extra 60-100 hp with bolt ons.

Hmmm Yes you can get F430 speed with special headers and special muffler and pipes and super duper carbon airboxes and a special ECU while still using the 360 engine?

No way

 

Before I bought my current Gallardo, I looked into a 360, and found that the Gallardo could loose 200lbs plus so easily by making it RWD and changing the exhaust. So I bought a 04 (the lightest of all of them) without the stupid glass rear (never did understand that on any car), and started taking it apart. Your not going to loose 200lbs of a 360 unless you plan to really take it apart, or take out the passenger seat.

 

Carnut,

Why do you feel the Gallardo feels or performs better without AWD especially when the 550-2 has slower track times

Also, a lot of research when into the factory making it two wheel drive.

 

I think perhaps differently then most, I think track cars should be set up for the track and the track only, and do not think a street car should be used as a track car. With that in mind, you should read my other posts on this board, I think all AWD sports cars should never have been made and have converted every AWD car I have ever owned. I have said this many times, I change my cars for my use and I could care less if it is slower at the track. I also remove all traction controls from my cars, I like to feel like a car will kill me if I make the wrong move, to me that is the only reason to own a sports car. Like I always say to each his own.

 

Que pasa macho??
No nos tires asi!![/QUOTE]

Lol, sabias que ibas a decir algo....

 

otro boricua aqui... bienvenido

 

Este es el amigo del modena amarillo de la foto que te envie la otra vez.

 

recuerdo ...he finally chimes in ... maybe he will became addicted also

 

There has been a lot of speculation on this thread so I will attempt to set the record straight from my learnings.

Here goes, sit back, enjoy a coffee and take a read...

1. The 3.6 litre in maximum state of tune can support ~550 bhp. This is ofcourse completely non-road emissions or noise legal, so answer to people's questions about 'if it can be done, why hasn't Ferrari done it?'. Well actually they have done it and they know it costs BIG money so they went with bigger cubes instead for their production units.

Their tuning partner, Michelloto did a series of 360 GTC race engines (less than 20 produced) was dyno'd as pumping out 480bhp with the air restrictors in place. When these retrictors where removed and the engine was 'uncorked' so to speak, i.e. allowed to gorge on as much air as it wanted the 3.6 litre engine bench tested at an astonishing 550bhp.

This required extensive work and R&D;

a. New ecu computers (Michelloto used MoTec M8)
b. Completely different exhaust system from the block back
c. Full new intake system, different port lengths, no AFM's (maf's used instead)
d. Microfinishing on the cams, fully blue printed everything
e. Ported & Polished heads.
f. Lightweight revised spec forged pistons with different cr.
g. Uprated injectors and fuel pump
h. Revised valve springs, valve timing, etc.
i. Special uprated knock sensors
j. 10,000 rpm rev limiter (!)
k. Other ram air mods...

Basically 550hp costs a lot more to do in a 3.6 than simply swapping out the unit and fitting the 4.3 (as Ferrari did). It would set you back around $100k to do this properly and would require frequent rebuilds.

2. On the issue of upgrade boggo standard 360's, the first thing to appreciate is that the US cars are literally CRIPPLED with all the emissions gear they are forced to breath through. This easily steals around 30hp on its own from and standard power output from just a Euro car.

Couple this with emissions and noise compliance issues they had to deal with and its easy to see that they had it tough in the US. By fitting something like the Fab speed headers, you immediately remove the first restriction to flow, the pre-cats in the headers. Fab speed gained 25hp just by optimising the pipes and removing the cats. Next restriction is the cats, again high flow cats like the Hyperflows or others yield impressive gains in flow as they lift the restrictions further. Finally the gasses hit the backbox and at this point if you've put on a valve bypass sports exhaust like either the standard 360 race exhaust from Ferrari (as was an option on the Modena and standard on the CS) you've removed the final hurdle to gasses escaping easily. Ofcourse you've also gained a huge amount of extra noise (not something many people can live with), and as with most things in life you don't get much for free, so with reduced noise comes reduced power.

Lifting Exhaust restrictions
If your happy to live with more noise fit the full monty, fabspeed headers, race cats and a titanium exhaust and you've just transform the exhaust flow. You've also just dumped an astonishing 73 lbs (33 kilos!) off the engine. Easily your looking at 30hp, possibly 40hp. Who knows, nobody I know has done this change in 1 go.

Lifting Intake restrictions
Once the system is sufficiently free flowing you'll need a remap to take advantage of the extra capacity to allow the gasses to escape quickly. The CS came as standard with free flowing system so has been mapped to take advantage of this fact plus used slightly overlapped intake/exhaust variable timing [ecu controlled] for even more power. Now your breathing is a restriction so now your hitting up against the digital limits of the AFM's as well as the airbox design. So they are the next items to be junked/replaced.

Once you sort out both the intake and breathing restrictions its then about the mapping and finally once you get to this level your basically hitting around 440-450 (with very loud racing car level of noise), still 100hp down on whats achievable in total but its still mightly aggressively "race car" loud at this point.

Laws of diminishing returns really start to kick in here and the next step is lifting the fueling limitations, larger injectors, new ecu remapping or replacement (such as motec), improved sensors such as the latest magentic detonation sensors and the like. Big costs to remap, potential to let go a couple of times developing it too and lots of testing. Basically its far cheaper and far easier to transplant the 4.3 once you try to eak out much more.

All in all the easiest and biggest bang for $ you can do is header cats removal [fabspeed headers or even euro headers if you can reprogram the ecu's to ignore the air injection], race cats [something like kinetics or hyperflows or others] and free flowing system along with a remap to adjust the ecu mapping to the freeflowing nature of the new state of tune.
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Addicted? What are you talking about!

 

PR is growing on Fchat, nice!! Saludos David y muchachos!

 

Stop worrying about resale... Loose 200-300lbs off the car and add 2 turbos. Problem solved


Jr

 

To F chat come tu!

 

LOL!

 

I agree. Exhaust works, followed by upgraded intake is by far the easiest and fuss free mods you can ever pull on an F car. Fabspeed headers, test pipes and afteermarket mufflers wit remote valve control....perfect.

 

Good question- I have a tubi on my 2000 and am contemplating the fabspeed headers but keeping the stock cats because: 1. lower cost leaving the main cats on, 2. the headers address the issue of potential pre-cat breaking apart by simply removing it, 3. the car is loud enough with tubi (changing to hiperformance cats would be maybe pushing it noise wise)

I'm not looking for more power so much as the elimination of the pre-cats (the side benefit would be maybe a little more power and an even better sound, but the main concern is to improve from the stock header/pre-cat set up)

The question/negative to me is regarding potential CEL's w/o pre-cats, although fabspeed now has air rails which should help any codes that were picked up before they offered them on the headers, but I still wonder about removing the per-cat all together.

 

I would go with Agency Power headers so they don't seem to be having issues with CEL

 

I'm not sure that fabspeeds are having any issues now that the air injection rails are on there....if both the Agency Power headers and Fabspeed do away with the pre-cats, I would think that they would both not have a CEL issue or both have a CEL issue. I know fabspeed makes good quality stuff, thus I would like to stay with their product if I decide to go forward with the headers.

One issue is there are so many things that can cause the CEL- many non-threatening (loose gas cap, a loose wire, small vaccume leak, a random mis-fire that "cures itself" etc..), but you never know...

 

A few have said that they didnt fit properly because the tubes were not the correct lengths. Plus Fabspeed headers are more money.

 

That's the first time I've heard that! My guess is they stand behind their product and I'd like to think something major like inaccurate tube length is not an issue.

 

A few guys posted about that . There have been various posts about there issues . I'm going with agency power better price . both are quality ,both look good and both net same gains ... so why pay more .

 

OK- I'll check them out. Thanks!