89testa-shorting a relay: tech help please | FerrariChat
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89testa-shorting a relay: tech help please

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Testarossa1, Mar 10, 2011.

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  1. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

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    #1 Testarossa1, Mar 10, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2011
    Hi guys

    I have the same situation as philwozza had last year on his testarossa, jerking under acceleration and then not starting. Phil trace it to a relay in the black box over the rear right wheel arch. I need to short/jump the relay to see if the car will then start.
    Steve 'guru' Magnussen posted a wiring diagram (in the thread link below post 10) showing the relay 'C'.

    The 4 terminals on the relay are numbered 30 31 15 87 any help or suggestions very much appreciated. Engine type F113b

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281949

    Forza Ferrari

    Tr boy
     
  2. Juri

    Juri Formula Junior
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    #2 Juri, Mar 10, 2011
    You are referring to the infamous "overload protection relay" with a 10A fuse inside the KE-Jetronic control box.
    It is Ferrari # 61766200; Stribel # 92861512400, which has been upgreaded to # 92861512402.
    You can purchase it from Ricambi for $140 or from any Porsche dealer for about $100.
    If you need one, send me a PM - I have a spare...
     
  3. jeffsjag90

    jeffsjag90 Rookie

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    #3 jeffsjag90, Mar 11, 2011
    to bypass relay you jump 30 and 87
     
  4. Juri

    Juri Formula Junior
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    #4 Juri, Mar 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

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    #5 Testarossa1, Mar 11, 2011
    Thankyou Jeff/Juri

    Philwozza has just called me to say the same!

    Will try and report back

    Tr boy
     
  6. jeffsjag90

    jeffsjag90 Rookie

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    #6 jeffsjag90, Mar 11, 2011
    56810Back Relay Test Jumper Kit
     
  7. jeffsjag90

    jeffsjag90 Rookie

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    #7 jeffsjag90, Mar 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  8. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

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    #8 Philwozza, Mar 11, 2011
    Thats a cool bit of kit Jeff. It should be in every Testarossa owners armoury :D

    P
     
  9. Juri

    Juri Formula Junior
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    #9 Juri, Mar 11, 2011
    I agree, this is really a "must to have one" in the garage!

    Serach for "Lisle 56810 Relay Test Jumper Kit"
     
  10. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

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    #10 Testarossa1, Mar 13, 2011
    I have purchased a multimeter today and intend to take readings tomorrow.
    I am a novice and need basic technique for testing eg where do i touch/hold the probes when testing the red wire from the water temp switch?

    I have made up a jumper wire ready to test fuel pumps and relay c.

    Thankyou for any help

    Regards

    Tr boy :)
     
  11. Juri

    Juri Formula Junior
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    #11 Juri, Mar 13, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
    First, you should make sure that you even have this overload relay, because it is part of KE-Jetronic cars (typically for USA, or late model European TRs).
    What number is stamped on your engine? Do you have cats and oxygen sensors? Snap a couple of photos and post those, please.

    In any case, here is the post describing how to check this relay from the termostat (look for post #8):
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129845&highlight=overload+relay

    as well as this one, where I was performing this test myself (posts #12, 13, 14)
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270367&highlight=overload+relay
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 Steve Magnusson, Mar 13, 2011
    If necessary, just pull the female connector with the red wire back a little bit to expose more of the metal male tab on the water thermoswitch (but maintain electrical connection between the female terminal and male tab of the water thermoswitch). Then touch the "+" lead of your multimeter to the metal male tab, and touch the "-" lead of your multimeter to the bare engine block or cylinder head (or any other handy ground).
     
  13. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

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    #13 Testarossa1, Mar 13, 2011

    Hi Juri

    Thankyou for your quick response. Car is late model uk No cats or lambdas engine F113B
    I have checked the stribel C relay and fuse ok not blown.

    I will take a look at your links now thankyou:)

    I will take pictures tomorrow but can i upload ?as not a paid member yet ( i have an dispute with paypal and they have blocked my account )

    Many thanks

    Clive
    Tr boy
     
  14. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

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    #14 Testarossa1, Mar 13, 2011
    Hi Steve

    Thankyou for the quick reply.

    I will try this tomorrow. I tentatively had my first "go" with the multimeter today on the protection relay C socket 30 as being alone I could check as it is always live-only it wasnt! It read 00.2v set to 200M

    Also Steve i have the relay cobbled in i think near the solonoid? Could this be linked to the jerking while driving and the now non starting?

    Thankyou

    Clive
    Tr boy
     
  15. Juri

    Juri Formula Junior
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    #15 Juri, Mar 13, 2011
    That's OK, Clive. Follow Steve's advice and I am sure that your problem will get sorted out.
     
  16. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

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    #16 Testarossa1, Mar 13, 2011
    Hi Juri

    In the close up picture of you testing the red wire at the water thermo switch, can you advise what you were exactly touching with the probe and what you had to pull off or remove/peel back!?? Also were you using a type of crock clip on the probes?

    TIA


    Clive
     
  17. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 Steve Magnusson, Mar 13, 2011
    Yes, it could if you don't (always) have +12V on terminal 30 of the protection relay. However, "200M" is typically a multimeter scale for measuring resistance (indicating 200 MegOhms), not DC voltage. The multimeter scale that you should be using should be labeled something like 20V DC or 20V with a straight line symbol (indicating DC; whereas, the AC voltage scales might be 20V with a wavy line symbol).
     
  18. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

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    #18 Testarossa1, Mar 13, 2011
    Oops!! I will retest tomorrow err today 2.27am! Time to sleep now.
    I have made a long check list from many previous posts so i will report back later.

    Many thanks-Fchat rocks !

    Clive

    Trboy
     
  19. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

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    #19 Testarossa1, Mar 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Ferraristi

    Here is what I found this morning when I started my checks !

    Although I am shocked at the damage, I hope this is the cause of the jerky running and subsequent non starting.

    The plastic frame with 1 burnt connector is "K" and the one with 2 burnt connectors is "J"

    Could someone advise what these burnt connectors run and the best route for parts and how to fix.

    Thankyou to all who have helped and hopefully this will get the beast back on the road-just in time for spring :}

    Forza Ferrari
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  20. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 Steve Magnusson, Mar 14, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
    k = AC Main +12V power (and someone already "fixed" that one)

    j = water fans

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    Neither should prevent your engine from starting and runnning OK (until it overheats ;))

    Have a look at the fuel pump connections in the y connector -- those could affect starting and runability.

    Do a search on "TR white connectors" for many prior threads/fixes.
     
  21. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

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    #21 Testarossa1, Mar 14, 2011
    Hi Steve
    Thankyou I will check more tomorrow.

    Tr boy
     
  22. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

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    #22 Testarossa1, Mar 15, 2011
    Hi Ferraristi

    Well she is running again!! Thankyou to everyone who helped me :)


    This morning I wanted to test the red 12V wire next to the thermo water switch. Very awkward! And i could see some of the terminal as the connector was not fully home! It was being forced sideways by the large hose which runs between the Fuel injection system past the water thermo switch and down the back of the engine. I very carefully brought it back into line. I also wanted to check the TDC and RPM sensor connectors and after reseating the black one i found the whiteish connector not pushed fully home.
    I turned the key and she fired instantly! :)
    I took readings of +14.54V at the red wire and very similar readings from protection relay "c" terminals 30,15 and 87 ! All with engine running at a smooth idle of 1200-1250 then settled at 1100. Small observation-when i took relay c out the revs increased slightly?

    Thankyou again fellas-although frustrating at times I have enjoyed "working" on my car and will continue to learn more and get my hands dirty :)

    Sincere regards
    Tr boy
    Clive

    Ps any alternative methods of subscribing as paypal is not an option for me
     
  23. Juri

    Juri Formula Junior
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    #23 Juri, Mar 15, 2011
    Glad to hear that it was an easy fix.
     
  24. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

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    #24 Philwozza, Mar 16, 2011
    Good news to see that you found the culprit and are back on the road again.

    P
     
  25. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

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    #25 Testarossa1, Mar 16, 2011
    Cheers Phil

    About to send you a text buddy

    Clive
     

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