RobzWorkz #3: 328 Basic Timing Belt Service

OK, as a "new" Ferrari owner I have done only a single belt change: (And Rob, I am eternally in your debt for your most helpful post on how to do so)
The inside of my cambelt covers had a black, greasy sort of dirt, that was probably bearing grease+dirt. I doubt that it was belt rubber, since the 8-year-old (~6000 miles) belts looked really good, and even the white lettering on the outside was quite legible. And no oil or coolant had leaked in from elsewhere, as far as I could tell.

I suspect that if you had driven a few thousand more miles, over a few more months-to-years, that your bearings would have looked pretty clean, the grease having been flung onto the cam covers in a thin film. I suspect that this is probably normal behavior for these bearings.

I replaced my bearings with Hill Engineering bearings: the Hill bearings look really nice, but it will be interesting to see how they compare with SKF in the long term. I am hoping that the Hill bearings will last for a long time, of course.

Forrest

 

"the Hill bearings look really nice, but it will be interesting to see how they compare with SKF in the long term. I am hoping that the Hill bearings will last for a long time, of course."

But why pay more for an allegedly "better" bearing that might last 10 years/100kmiles if you are going to change the belts/bearings every 5 years (or every three years)/every 3000 miles?

 

That's a really good question.

Originally I searched all my usually-reliable bearing supply places for SKF bearings, and came up dry. After reading everything I could on FerrariChat, and realizing that future availability of the SKF bearings was in some doubt, I decided that the Hill bearings were worth the relatively small increment in price.

Hill Engineering seems to make very good stuff; the bearings fit perfectly, and the reduced rotational inertia seems like a good thing, and hopefully the grease used will be more stable to heat. Also, the inner race is one-piece, unlike the SKF.

I'll probably change belts at least every 5 years: will I change the bearings, too? I don't know yet. I await the consensus of the group, since the Hill bearings are fairly new, there is no real longevity data yet, but there should be some in 3 to 5 years, I'm hoping. (And certainly any bearing that shows any hint of wear will get replaced, no matter what.)

The Hill bearings may last 10+ years, or they may not: I just don't know yet.

Forrest

 

The SKF bearings pictured are no longer made. The new ones are junk and so are the Ferrari bearings.


If it was not for the Hill bearings we would have no source for quality bearings for the 308/328/288/F40.

 

If nobody sells an adequate bearing other than Hill (though they source them from SOMEBODY) then I totally agree there is no alternative. I wasn't aware that SKF et al were no longer making them. OTOH, if anybody makes them, it's difficult for me to believe that it isn't sufficiently good to easily last far longer than the belt/bearing change interval that anyone here suggests.

The issue for the bearing is running time, not age. The way most people drive these cars, I'd suspect that 5000 miles would be unusual between belt changes. And if you do the bearing change at the same time - as is also commonly recommended - you could probably make the bearing out of BBs and butter for lubricant and it would be fine!

OK, maybe not...

 

I agree and we used to do belt changes all the time without doing the bearings. Labor was cheap and if a bearing got into trouble later it was not that big a deal to do it then.

The trouble is several items. Many owners pay little attention to noises, especially new noises. Those that do, fall into two camps, those that ask immediately what is up and those that hope it will go away on its own. The second group comes in on a tow truck with a broken motor. Then because of all the internet driven paranoia and all the keyboard experts we get crucified because we didn't replace everything we touched and now it is our fault.

The next issue is in my experience bearings are almost invariably still good when we replace them at a belt change but they often will not go two sets of belts. If the belts are serviced when they are supposed to be the bearings should be fine but I have no control over that. One customer throwing me under the bus because he didn't service his car on time does a lot of damage to my reputation. No one is going to wait for my side of the story. Just look at all the witch hunts here every day. The assumption is always the owner is right, the shop is wrong.


A third issue. As we can see from the pictures of very high quality bearings in this thread the seals are not absolute. Many owners have a fetish about keeping their motors clean. Guess what happens to those bearings when some owner or detailer gets after the motor with soap and water? Or worse yet a steam cleaner or pressure washer? Water intrusion and soap degrading the grease is the result. Another item I have no control over.

Modern business is half about doing your job and half about avoiding liability.

Not my fault, just the world I do business in.

 

A dirty motor is a happy motor.

 

SKF still makes them but it is a new design (cheaper to produce I am sure) and is garbage.

Hill is taking very high quality generic bearings and constructing a housing to put them in to create a dimensionally proper tensioner bearing. Ferrari does the same for its OE bearing but uses an undersize SKF generic bearing and often damages the bearing during assembly. I have installed several that made noise at startup from a damaged bearing.


Like I said, without the Hill bearing we would be without any quality parts for that job for the early V8.

 

Good enough for me!

 

Excellent discourse herein...

Some comments:

I acquired my bearings from Eurospares. Maybe they have an arrangement. Thanks for the heads-up, Brian. Please keep us aware of the junk.

BTW, IMO, the Shop's usually right in most situations, unless there is minimal experience or unscrupulous practices...I've experienced each and both should be avaided. I have also seen customers generate loads of BS trying to take minimal responsibility for their own decisions (FYI, I do 'volunteer maintenance' at my mom's express car wash...lots of interesting customer interactions).

I have to agree to a point. I like a clean engine, but I get there by using wiping methods alone: small towels, WD-40 and effort work for me do the trick. I generally never wash an engine. A good periodic engine wipe-down keeps it pleasant looking, makes it more enjoyable to work on, keeps the gunk off and makes it easy to find the beginnings of leaks.

When I cleaned the timing area, it was only with paper towels and a little rubbing alcohol to dry it. I was generally well-pleased with the area when I first opened it up, however, I noticed some unsightly beginnings of corrosion on the AC bracket studs in the forward bank area; that annoyed me a little bit.

 

It is a pretty recent situation. Probably happened about the time you started the thread and Eurospares was working off existing stock. I have looked and there seems to none of the early style left.


Nothing in the world wrong with the current offering from Hill. They are a little more money but still very reasonable. We just need to be sure he keeps on making them.

 

+1 and Amen to that!

 

You bring up a great point, and one that I've been pondering in recent days. How do you all clean the heavy crud from your engines (especially the transaxle, gearbox and lower block...which is where most of mine is)? I know the easy answer is some solvent foaming spray and a hose, but I'm curious as to how you all do it. Personally, I'm going for the minimum of water and solvent/soap on this engine and don't mind the hand work.

 

Avoid soap and water/engine cleaners and steam altogether. If you do use chemicals and water, do so only once to get the 'big stuff' off...and no steam. Use hand work thereafter.

Use work, work and more work. Use WD-40 to soften up grime areas and wipe, wipe and wipe again. Use lots of old towels. WD-40 is a benign substance that will aid in cleaning and prevent rusting/deterioation. Don't use WD-40 to lube hinges, pivots and such. Use proper oil/grease for that.

Do not spray anything in the timing area. Just detail with towels. You can do a good cleaning there if you are replacing the belts. Just don't clean off the aligning marks you made.

Did I mention you should use more work than chemicals?

 

That's what I figured, and WD-40 is my pal....good thing that I enjoy the work Thank you, Rob!

 

I'm in the middle of replacing the timing belt on my 85 Mondial 3.0 QV. I was wondering for those who have removed the A/C compressor unit. What did you use to permenantly cap off the A/C lines?

I just removed my A/C Compressor as the previous owner didn't even have a A/C belt for the compressor, so I assumed something is either wrong with the compressor or out of refridgerant. Either way it is a convertible so I don't think I'll ever need the A/C in northern California and the extra room to work on the timing belts is allowing my gigantic hands (I wear XXXL motorcycle gloves for reference) to have more access.

Thanks for any input and thanks Robzworkz for the pictures and write-up!