Driving Impressions

Several years ago before the 330GTC came to live at my house, I had a 250PF Coupe for a year. It had the inside plug engine, 16" wheels and big, skinny bias ply tires. It had no O/D but had been adapted at some point to tube shocks and disc brakes. As a matter of fact, the front disc calipers were not the same as the later factory disc brake cars but were shared with the Facel Vega. The unmatched 250 sound was there but at first my impression was that it was clunky and wooden.....until I drove it in anger. Then it became a Ferrari! Still however, the steering lacked the 330's smooth self-centering action and the on-rails, on-center feel of the later car. I know I'll get a beating for this comment, but why does an Alfa live axle behave so much better than the objects of our veneration? But the look of the car.....it had class. It was a car for an aristocrat, a very different image than my disco-dog 308.

Speaking of an aristocrat's car, I recently had a ride in a 410 SA. Wow! It was all the feel, the smells, the intangibles that I remember from the 250, but with the b**ls of the 550 Maranello. What a combination!

 

All right, all right. The historians among you know I've had over 100 mostly old ones, so I guess I have to add my 2 cents.

They were all different--that's the first thing that needs to be said. That was part of the thrill of making the next purchase: one never knew what one was going to get, especially when buying on a vague description from my Italian friend who wasn't that interested anyway.

The early 250s had multi-disc clutches (many were later changed out), so getting off the line took some getting used-to. Once under way, the sound of the engine was enough to make one overlook a host of sins! My first was a 250 Europa (331EU) which, despite its Lampredi-designed engine, seemed to wind out forever. It was such a thrill to take my friends out in it, as once we got on the freeway it just kept accelerating like there was no end. It always seemed to me that it was more powerful than a Columbo 250, but maybe that's just because it was my first time. (You remember your first time, don't you?)

But in truth, 0331 was quite unwieldy, with its heavy nose and long chassis. And the seats were not designed for cornering--think slide, slide.

Brakes have already been commented on--those big drums took a lot of leg power,even when properly set up, which they rarely were.

My next cars were 250GTs of various sorts. The brakes were no better, but at least the handling improved with the short chassis. (Short compared with the 110" Europa, that is). The Zagatos were great compared to the Boanos, as the seats held one in place for fast cornering, and the light-weight bodies made for more speed. ( 0515GT and 0537GT). But there was a trade-off: hotter and noisier than the contemporary Boanos, and the bodies tended to get cracks. Clutch engagement was a problem on an up-hill start, which was something to be avoided at all costs.

1960 brought many real improvements. The o/s plug engine meant fewer blown head-gaskets; the disc brakes, while not anything to write home about in today's world, were a revelation, and the short chassis of the Berlinetta and California (with better shocks) brought real handling. And the bucket seats found on many SWBs were a bonus. The Comp SWBs, in particular, were real racers that could and did win races, but at the same time were very driver-friendly, except for the over-carburetion.

Specialized cars like the 500 Mondial and the 206SP were something else entirely, and this post is already too long!

I still prefer the SWB to a 275GTB--handling as well as gearbox. But I have to admit that one of my all-time faves was my 275GTB-C (9057). What a great all-round driver-racer! We owned it when my wife went through the Bondurant course, and she beat my time (and most other guys) up the Virginia City hill-climb that year.

All that having been said, these were all great cars in their times, but don't compare at all to modern cars, from 360s to rice-rockets.

 

Dale,

If your in the Atlanta area during any of your globe trotting travels, let me know. I'll let you have a crack at the Daytona. You can see first hand how much fun it is and how effective a tool for terrorizing the countryside and inciting glee in small children it really is!

Ive posted more driving impressions on this car in the past than anyone could ever want.... what you need is some HANDS ON my friend!



Terry

 

Here's a driving impression I wrote after driving the 195 Inter Ghia s/n 0105 S.

It's still the best Ferrari experience I've ever had!

Best, Peter

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135087989&postcount=152

 

Vintage cars are a world apart from modern ones. It's not a Ferrari, but my 1972 Lotus Europa TC drives very much like a 50's/60's Ferrari I'm sure. If I may, I'd like to tell about my driving impressions of it.

First off, the car is very small. A 308 is huge by comparison. It is 42 1/2" high at the front of the roofline, its highest point. Your butt is 5-6" inches off the ground. It's actually not difficult to get in or out of once the technique is learned. Right leg in, sit, left leg in.

The seats are amazing. Mine are not raked as much as the earlier S2 model, but it's more rake than most people are used to. They cup you like a hamster sitting in the palm of your hand. The high bolsters keep you firmly in place which portends to what the car can do in the twisties. The gearshift lever is short and stbby, mounted high on the center console so it's right where you want it to be. The steering wheel is larger than modern cars but not excessively so, and it's thin. One has to watch hitting the windshield with their knuckles! Leg room is extensive which is always a surprise to first time guests.

Taking off in first is easy. The gear is quite low and you will never stall it. I usually shift at 4500 RPMs in 1st, well short of the 6800 RPMredline. Second is where the fun starts. The car will zip to 60 MPH in about 7 seconds although by then one is in 3rd. This isn't a dragster though; the fun is in the turns. Top speed is about 120 and the car is stable all the way to the top.

It has been said that one runs out of courage before the car runs out of sticktion and truer words were never said. Only experienced racers can corner full out on the first try, because everyone else will not think the car can go any faster than what their Porsche or Ferrari can do in a turn. But it can; on modern rubber it pulls over 1 G, and at only 1550 pounds it can do that at higher speeds than a 3000 pound car can. Passengers have been known to scream at me to slow down in turns even when I'm far from the limit.

The steering is fast yet precise. The car goes exactly where you aim it. It's dead neutral into turns; no push and the back stays behind the front. If you're going wide at the apex, a slight lift of the throttle will push the rear out to tighten the line, and then you punch it to gather it back and finish the turn. No car I've ever driven is as much fun to throttle steer!

Eventually one WILL start to go beyond the car's limits. When this happens, there is warning on dry pavement (we'll get to wet in a second). The tires start to squeal and the rear gets a little loose. It's important to just hold on, keep on the gas as opposed to a quick lift, and have faith the car will carry you through! The danger is if you lift abruptly.

Negotiating transition moves is also amazing. The CG is so low that the car has zero body roll yet is not stiff and harsh in its ride. The suspension is perfectly tuned for the car's weight on modern roads. On winding roads at 50-80 MPH one can feel like a real road racer even with modest skills; it's that easy to drive this car fast. It stays in its lane and won't go sideways over bumps in turns.

I've only spun my car twice, both time from a standing start to turn left on a wet road. I hit the gas too hard both times and before I even knew what was happening I was spinning like a top. Luckily both times were on an empty road with lots of room! But I have a ton of respect now for the lack of grip I get in the wet. I don't take the car out any more unless the roads are bone dry. If one is caught in the rain, it's best to drive like an old lady to be safe.

As is typical of old sports cars, it vaugly smells of oil, exhaust and that "British Car" smell, is hot in the summer, cold in the winter, loud but wonderfully musical, and stops on a dime. It's twice the horsepower of MG's and Triumphs while being 750 pounds lighter, so even at 117 HP you'd think you have 200. It compares with a 308 for HP/LB.

Well, I hope people find this interesting!

Ken

 

Here's what it's like to criuse around the old Grand Prix track at Sergusa in 0846:

http://www.youtube.com/v/rFTyitiOpS8

 

Great clip. I love hearing all the gear, chain and intake noises that are insulated out of the road cars. I've driven nothing newer than the GTO in terms of racing cars, but the sounds from this clip bring back very fond memories.Thanks for the post!

 

Yes that and the smell of hot oil and the ticking of the Alum. after you shut her down.

Best

 

Ecstatic!!

 

I drive a 550 and a 330 - they are completly different and thats the reason to own them - many have asked me why own two V12's isnt one just a modern version of the other - not true I say - the 330 atacks the senses in ways the 550 cant

 

Good tastes, so do I. I can recommend a 365BB to provide some manic contrast to the other V12s!

Onno

 

Here are some quick impressions:

Lusso--great sounds from the engine, a quick, responsive car--easy to drive. The clutch was a little sensitive.

GTO--Marvelous sounds from the engine, the 5-speed is a delight and the car covers up all of your mistakes--an extension of your will.

PF coupe--Nice sounds, it felt too heavy and down on power--but everything is relative.

355 spider--very quick, aggressive sound, go-kart steering--is this a vintage thread?

Testarossa--I liked it much better than I would have thought. It fit like a glove and it did what I asked of it--does it border on vintage or are timing chains the dividing line?

The Breadvan--see GTO above, but with 4-speed and a little lighter and quicker off the line.

 

Tick ping tick ping ping tick. If you don't hear _that_ you didn't drive it hard enough!

 

I may have missed a follow up post by Dale on this old thread but any driving impression of the more vintage machines would benefit greatly from a report on the age and type of tires on the machine.

Great report, Dale! If I read it back in 2006 I have forgotten that I did so by 2011!

 

Bryan, I sent you a PM.

 

Which PF coupe? OP or IP?

Once I removed the door from my PF coupe (an IP car) and I thought I wasn't going to make it accross the garage floor with it. It was that heavy. If the door is a sampling of the rest of the car, I am amzed at the car, being as lithe and quick as it is. For once I wished I could test drive a TdF just to see what that platform with a lighter body is capable of.

john

 

OP--Thanks, John.

 

In 1978 I was lucky enough to have Jacques Vaucher at Chinetti Int'l call me about the prototype 365GTC that they had just taken in and even luckier to be able to scrape together enough loot to buy it. It's a 330GTC that Enzo had the factory line install a Typ 245 4.4 litre engine for his friend, Leopoldo Pirelli, chairman and CEO of his patronymic Company. The factory ID plaque in the engine bay ID's the car as a 365GTC, the first. The car was also used as a test mule for Pirelli's cinturato radials. Two years later it was clear the engine needed work and I turned the car over to Nereo Iori, along with Francois sicard, the two top NART racing mechanics, for a complete mechanical restoration. Everything replaced or rebuilt except the block, heads, crank, rods and pistons! I owned and enjoyed that car for close to 30 years until it sold at David Gooding's Pebble auction in 2007. I have owned a 575M F1 Maranello for two years. Also note that in the 1960's I lived in Paris, had an FIA unlimited internation racing license issued by the Royal Automobile Club and raced a Super 90 Porsche at the Autodrome at Linas-Montlhery south of Paris. So I guess I have some basis for commenting on your comparison drives.

Many of your comments abouyt the GTC are right on but my experience with mine was of a car whose handling was as close to neutral as I've experienced. Cornering quickly, the slightest tug on the wheel broke the back end loose and then it was extremely easy to keep the car beautifully balanced in a 4-wheel drift; a little more throttle and the back would step out a bit, a little less and you'd find slight understeer. Delicacy was paramount in managing throttle and steering wheel. I have a sense that your GTC had some needs in the front suspension OR your tire pressures may have been off.

The Maranello is an entirely different order of car, close to a thousand pounds heavier, far more powerful and with the Fiorano handling package suspension that my example has, if you really want to - and dare to - go that fast, is much closer to race car feel.

I was especially interested in Ed Niles' comments. I've never driven a 250SWB though I sense that I would still prefer a GTC for everyday driving. On the track, of course, the SWB, especially the SEFAC hotrods, will handle better as they ae significantly lighter and stiffer.
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Would love to hear more like this!

 

Lovely post and lovely car. My experience of the GTC in quick cornering is very similar to yours - it is a lovely car to steer on the throttle. Very neutral and relaxed behaviour on the limit. I have not found any serious amount of understeer like Steve has - would be interesting to see what he would think if he drove mine (too bad we missed that opportunity last year Steve, maybe next time).

Napolis' described starting procedure is very similar to what I have learnt from my GTC. She's taught me what she likes best. It's a great part of the fun of these cars.

Onno