Is the Scuderia market really soft?

I am very tempted to do the same right now and have been watching the retail asking prices of Scuderias for over the last month.

 

There is a local 08 nero (regular) 430 with 2.7k miles, clean, that the dealer (Porsche dealer) just got and are asking $190k for it. I must say I'm a bit baffled why its priced nearly in Scud range. It seems the Scuds are still getting hammered while the base 430 prices are not really dropping much. Sure there are a few base 430's $120k-$125k ask, but most are $130k-$160k still. I guess much has to do with simply overpricing though.

 

I think the dealer is on crack! Yes, it is a practically a new car, but look how much the prices fall off as you look at 430s from 05, even with low miles. At that price, you can get a Scud for the most part.

Why buy the 08 at 190 when you can buy and 05-06 for 130-140. I don't see the value, as the cars are the same and the year does not matter to me.

The 09 will have 50K depreciation or more in it in a few years, where I expect the 05s have a lot less further to drop. Of course, I could be wrong. ........Steve

 

In the UK even high mile 08 scuds are at least £20k more than low mile high spec 09 430's - just as you would expect.

 

Ebay 190509033353
Tony Kanaan's Scud with 1500 miles starting at $189k

 

What do you base that statement on? In the US that is not the case...yet!

I've been all over the CS and early 430 coupe market for the past 2 months. While there are some CS's that have higher sale prices than some early 430's, the #'s are just reaching parity, not "far higher" CS prices over early 430 coupes.

Here is the average price and range from cars.com right now for example:

2005 F430 Coupe = average $133k (range $112k to $160k)

2004 360 CS = average $136k (range $117k to $160k)

I know vitually every CS on the list currently and all but a couple have been sitting for many, many months...so I don't think those asking prices are anywhere near selling prices. I don't have the same feel for 430 pricing, but I'm sure some of the same going on there. I'd say pricing is comparable. The 430s on average have higher mileage than the CS's despite being a year newer...not a surprise given the nature of the CS and its limited comfort as a daily driver.

Back on topic...Scud market...I have also been following that market. There have been a small handful of sales under $200k for "higher" mileage cars - meaning 4-8k miles. There was one very nice car that sold under $200k that had only 2k miles last week...Otherwise asking prices are firmly in the 210++ range and I've tried to get a couple for under $200 and been told "no". So...my take is that the selling prices for the somewhat rare occasions with seller and buyer can agree on value are north of $200k. I will be back in the Scud market in the Oct/Nov timeframe and I'm guessing (without much doubt actually) that the cars will be down 10% or so by then with askings in the $200k range and sales in the $190/180s...

16M asking prices are still very high...there don't appear to be many buyers for those cars and sellers paid such huge sums for them that they are hesitant to let them go for huge losses. I haven't seen any distress situations personally (but I'm sure there have been a couple) wherein the seller had to get the cash out...so there is no equilibrium in the 16M market right now...actually I can say that about the Scud market too...right now there are simply too few actual sales to determine a market and exceptions do not a market make...but certainly, like 99.9% of used cars, the market is going only one direction...

 

Excellent post, very thoughtful and correct.

 

I base the CS observation on fact - in the UK!

Cheapest CS currently available is £86k, most expensive is £110k.
Cheapest 430 coupe is £68k, of 44 for sale 21 are less than cheapest CS and at starting price of cheapest CS you can get an 07 430 with 5000 miles. Most expensive 430 is £110k but this for for an 09 car.
Proof positive that CS pricing is not comparable to 430 in the UK. Can't comment on US Market but see no reason for a difference.
CS's are selling easily in the UK for just under £100k. The reason is they are rare, great to look at and great to drive.

Back to the Scud Market and in the UK prices seem to be as expected, oldest and cheapest high mile cars holding £20k above most expensive, low mile and newest 430's.
Whether Scud will emulate CS is down to time and Market, they made quite a few but it isa great car. 16m maybe has more chance due to also being great car, spider and rarer but who knows - we will see!

 

how much of a discount should i get for grigio medio? i like it but everyone is telling me i will be buried literally in that scud.........

thanks

 

CS avg asking prices ($145k) are actually higher if you look outside of cars.com with 34 for sale and one just sold from an authorized dealer just 7 minutes ago.

 

Weren't there 3 to 4 times as many SCUDS as CS? Plus they are at different points on the deprciation curve.

What I don't understand is the vast pricing difference between the 16M and the F430 open top - that looks like it is nearly two to one.

Is the 16M that much more of a car than the F430 open top?

 

Yes!

 

That all depends on what you are looking for. The 16m is much faster. Performance enhanced because it's a scud spider basically. Taking it on a weekend long trip and you are now hoping for a standard 430 spider. Uncomfortable the whole time after an hour or so of travel. Different seats and you would truly have the best all around soft top made. Spiders are also quiet enough to justify talking to each other when the top is down.

Who knows how many scuds were made but the numbers are just under 3 times the CS totals of 1300 and some. Ferrari most likely made more just like the false 499 total of the 16m's.

 

Scuderia/16M seats are great, no comfort problems for me but I guess that depends on the size of butt sat in them!

 

False 499 total - are you sure?

I respect your extra cushion as an advantage!

 

I can't seem to find it but IIRC wiki at one time had production #'s of Scuderia at 3500 worldwide. This was for 2008/2009 MY's.

Btw - local Ferrari dealer sold a Griogio Silverstone 2008 for $192K about a month ago.

 

Absolutely! I had an 07' 430 Spider, and currently have a 16M. There is no comparison from both an enjoyment and performance perspective. The August 09 TopGear Magazine said the following:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and now, and say that the Scud 16M you see on these pages is not only the greatest Ferrari in the range today, but also the most exciting road car ever made. Yep. That's right. Oh yeah. Now you'll think I've gone mad, but it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. I'm not one for sentimentality or harking back to the past - for me, older cars are inferior, so every Ferrari bows down to this one for drama, including the Enzo, which isn't as quick around Ferrari's Fiorano test track anyway...

Tim

 

I liked that quote as well. Gets my totally biased thumbs up.

 

Fully agree that 16M may be the one, just spend 10K to get the Spider carbon racing seats and you are done

 

M16, Black, approximatly 2.2K miles just sold for 287K in So Cal. I tried to get it for 280K and was turned down.

 

On a Ferrari in the 200-300k range it is surprising that people will let a car they want slip out of their hands for $10,000 off the selling price.

 

Good luck finding another, truly great cars.

 

Most likely an original MSRP of approximately $325,000. At a $287,000 sales price, that translates to an 11.6% value drop in approximately 1.75 years. Considering the economic climate, this car held its value exceptionally well.

Tim

 

Well it is that hard to find one. $284.9K at Ferrari of Dallas.

http://boardwalkferrari.com/Dallas-Plano/For-Sale/Used/Ferrari/430/2009-Scuderia-Spider-16M-Red-Car/5362830/

 

Another one here with pretty high spec:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ferrari-430-/250791179168?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a6451b3a0