Ferrari Responds To Chris

People feel duped? How? So, you mean that every person who bought a 355 feels like a moron now because there car is actually 0.2 secs slower than was published in Road and Track in 1994?

I don't think so.

Ask any 355 owner if the performance of the car meets their expectations. The answer will be "hell yes".

This is all marketing BS. And, what Harris and Japolnik are doing is also marketing BS.

 

Well, I'm glad people don't feel duped, I suppose. But that doesn't change the fact that "being duped" is indeed the correct classification, characterization and feeling one would (or should) have if they were sold something that didn't meet the advertiser's claims. It's even more of a dupe when you're buying a performance car based on its ... performance.

And, maybe they're still pleased with their cars, even though they don't meet the performance numbers. Maybe it's more of a mild disappointment. But, in the end, a dupe is what it is.

CW

 

Feel sad if you want but you're being duped by a English writer who, after being coddled by Ferrari and other manufacturers for years, turns on them with his story that just HAPPENS to be the same week McLaren allows magazines to release information on the reports of their new car.

Coincidence? I think not.

 

I don't care what his motivation is. You're confusing the issue. Fact is, if the numbers don't meet the published figures, it's not "as advertised".

Call it a dupe. Call it a deception. Call it an outright lie. Call it what you want. I've already said it's not enough for me to not want to buy a Ferrari. But, if someone is buying a car for its performance, and it doesn't meet the published performance numbers, then, how can it not be a disappointment? Is it a disappointment that will compel each and every Ferrari owner to suddenly sell their performance "pig"? Not at all. But, it also undermines the manufacturers credibility.

CW

 

There's a question of credibility here on both sides.

IF he had done what he should have done -- some research into the subject instead of just another internet rant, we might give him some credit.

Anyone can write anything and say anything. Did Ferrari do this? Probably. Do others... oh, I guess he just forgot to mention that.

 

Hasn't it been rumored for years that Porsche understates their HP? Porsche seems to show-up with their 6 cylinder engine (rated at a lower HP than their direct competitor in any given class) and somehow ends up doing more with less?

Maybe its just cultural.... saying more about the Germans vs the Italians on how they market their performance data, than anything else

 

Given the variation between individual cars and the fact that very very few owners ever see the edges of the performance envelope I think some "doth protest too much".
As fars as the "as advertised" question goes, there is at least one degree of separation between the maker and the consumer when a third party conducts the tests.

 

You mean, manufacturers monkey with their cars for tests? Oh, the HORROR! I had NO idea! (Sorry, I can't resist the sarcasm on that)

But, why state the obvious? Of course, they all do it. If you want journalists and publications to disclaim everything, let the lawyers in the room. And, frankly, this is just one man's opinion. So, take it for what it's worth. And, you can certainly call Harris' credibility into question, but that doesn't change the facts. If the test numbers don't meet the manufacturer's own, then there's a discrepancy. Perhaps it's a big discrepancy, or perhaps it's immaterial. But, a discrepancy. Whether SpA is worse than others, however, is really the question, isn't it? I assume they're all on a rough par, but SpA has more to lose (in that they sell a performance car) if their performance numbers fall flat.

And, to Mark(study), I have also heard that Porsche understates their numbers. In typical understated, teutonic behaviour. Under-promise and over-deliver. Most (as perhaps SpA does) do the opposite. Better to leave the customer pleasantly surprised than disappointed, IMO. But, that's just me.

And, yes, Viszla, I assume the tests are legitimately conducted so as to maintain credibility, but that doesn't mean that the car you're delivered by your dealer will do what the tested car does. Again, this may not be "material", and we agree that most, if not virtually all, drivers aren't able to a) tell the difference and/or b) extract that high level of performance out of a car around a track. Most of the statistics are hard to test (top speed, lap times, etc.) and, in modern daily driving, are irrelevant. They're just bragging rights. People buy cars for lots of reasons. But, am I semi-disappointed that our Stradale weighs more than what SpA published? A little bit. But, it's not enough for me to ask for a rescission of the sale, either.

CW

 

German horses have been bigger since the fifties at least
I read that in a magazine once

 

Must have been a German magazine or author?

CW

 

[Headline] Ferrari brings a gun to a knife fight.

[Me] Yawn. Journalist integrity in a car mag? BWHAHAHAHAHA!


[Headline] Ferrari does not know how to tighten a nut. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317453

[Me] WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT!


One of these fine days, everybody, including Ferrari, is going to figure out that you can deny, but you can't hide. Thank goodness for forums like Ferrari Chat. While it is true there is a lot of crap to wade through; every now and then, even a blind pig finds an acorn.

I don't know about you, but I find it extremely disturbing to hear about bolts coming loose in any Ferrari, much less an Enzo. Geeze Louise, even the Brits figured out, finally, how to make things stay together.

Nothing is going to change Ferrari's piss poor attitude about its customers until we start pushing back from the table.

Dale

 

Actually I think it was R&T.

 

That Ferrari responded at all is kinda new for them.

Reason's for purchase vary, no doubt, but customers don't buy Ferraris purely for their performance #'s, as they are rarely (not since the F40?) at the top among production offerings.

 

Nothing new here...

Buttons have been falling off my new-from-the-tailor italian suits for DECADES! If they can't tie a knot properly, why should we expect them to be able to tighten a bolt?

Seriously.

CW

 

Not to quibble, but they're pretty high up there. There may be a few higher, but not many.

CW

 

FIAT is shooting themselves in the feet. Europe didnt buy Chryslers badged as Chryslers and they are certainly not going to buy them badged as Lancia. What a shame that is.

 

And the Maserati TC worked so well...

 

The published figures you're referring to are by outside magazines and media. Ferrari state performance data in the owner's manual which are more conservative. So the "as advertised" comment doesn't really apply. All magazines or TV shows have always been biased to ad sponsors, so it's really impossible to get any unbiased reviews through any sources. Chris Harris, I am sure, rant about Ferrari for reasons other than protecting consumers but who cares about his motives. Most people just want to see the prancing horse fall on its face, especially other marque owners and trolls.

Do I agree with manufacturers supplying hot rodded versions of their production cars to magazine tests? HELL NO. So who should govern all this? The media? They are the ones allowing this to happen and publishing these numbers to readers and making money off of subscriptions and advertisement money. For Chris Harris (the corrupted cop) to come out and rant. Sorry, guilty as well if not worst. Suggestions for consumers, use your common sense and don't just rely on consumer reports or what's stated on ads and magazines.

 

Hmm... maybe you should think about getting one from Hong Kong?

Dale

 

Anyone find it ironic that McLaren are specifically testing the 12C on the Top Gear track to break the lap record? Is Chris fed up with that too?

 

Maybe you shouldn't be that cheap and buy better suits ;-)

 

Harris also mentioned in the MP4 review that he would rather have an F40. I think out of all the UK based journalists, he is probably the one without any bias for nationalities.

I think a lot of people are missing CH's point. His point wasn't "Ferraris are terrible, go buy Porsches and McLarens everyone!!!!"; instead, it was "Ferraris are awesome, and they don't need these tricks." The man even owned a couple of Ferraris in the past, so to paint him as a rabid Ferrari-hating publicity-seeking tabloid journalist is quite disingenuous.

 

I agree I don't think he's a Ferrari-hating journalist, but the date of release on a tabloid website does make him look like a "publicity-seeking tabloid journalist." It also makes him look like a sensationalist, especially because of his pseudo morality in that he cares for the consumer when as stated a few posts ago, it was he taking part in those "lies." You can't ever attack one entity, because there is never only one guilty party, it again ruins your argument and makes you look further like a sensationalist.

 

Yeah, I know. After having bought Attolini, Kiton and Brioni, I guess it's time to try something else...

CW

 

Thanks Tifosi 15 for saying it a lot better than me.