I don't understand vintage racing

I was at Willow over the weekend and there was a VARA (Vintage Auto Racing Association) event going on. mostly production cars, but some Formula Fords, etc as well. beautiful cars to watch and listen to.

I do think a lot of it is nostalgia, either people driving what they drove back in the day or older/wealthier enthusiasts living out their childhood dreams.

also, the competition isn't as nuts as SCCA/NASA, and the cars are a bit more "lively" due to older technology.

I "get it", and while it wouldn't be my first choice it's really cool.

 

I ~sorta~ get vintage racing. What I DON'T get is blow boat (sailboat) racing.

How did the first blow boat race happen? One guy at the marina said to the other "Hey, I bet I can go less slow than you!"

just sayin'
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Edit: BTW Doc ya almost got me convinced on the spec Miata thing... also thinking of building a monster... hmmmm

 

Several seasons ago, at Lime Rock, I watched a Lotus Elan race a vintage Aston Martin (not sure of the model, DB something or other?). It was a very interesting race. The AM would pull ahead on the straight, and then the Lotus would catch him and pass through the rest of the tight track.

That race demonstrated a lot of what is interesting to me about vintage racing. The classic cars, with their characteristic strengths and weaknesses.

But I have been curious, like you, about the reasons people struggle with the older technology versus going out in a relatively bullet-proof Miata.

 

1) Get a chance to drive something a hero of their's may had been 2) enjoy sharing the car in it's natural enviornment with other's ( I know a guy with one of Mark Donohue's 917K's , and would be a shame if he just kept it hidden!) 3)Competition is competition to some , and driving a car more direct & difficult rather than a well sorted easy car to drive.4) Drive something there are very few left of? 5) have a car that was until somewhat recently competitive at the regional club racing scene and still want to flog it.

 

Nothing cheap about vintage racing, it costs a lot of money to run and maintain those cars or any race car for that matter. Costs vary, with the faster you go the faster your money goes.

 

No doubt there! I see the same 935K3 at Sebring races almost each time i'm there,and there certianly is NOTHING cheap on that beast!
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Nostalgia / reminiscing - the icons of your youth etc

Same reason all those rubbish bands have reformed and are touring again

 

I'm with the good Doctor, I don't get it either. Never have, never will.

I enjoy checking out the equipment, but calling it "racing" is a misnomer.

 

I don't get the "racing" part either, but it's better than having those cars in the corner of some dude's garage to never be seen or heard by the public again. Just sayin'.

 

Anyone can race a Miata, whether wheel-to-wheel, AutoX, etc.

Not everyone has the huevos or $$$ for a DB4, or D-type, or blower Bentley.

Besides, you can do vintage racing and fat tire/big torque. Isn't that what Boss Mustangs, Cuda AAR and Javelins are all about?

Ya wanna go cheaper? Think LeMons.

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What's not to love?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY5zdnGvT0c&feature=related[/ame]

Ok so this 1971 race wasn't vintage at the time - but people still race these cars. Can you think of a race more exciting than this video clip? Bet it feels damn fast for the drivers too!

 

Vintage racing is not supposed to be quite as hard as Spec racing in SCCA or modern pro racing, which are awesome but GUARANTEED to tear up equipment and probably injure you at least slightly at some point.

Vintage racing is more about the cars themselves and the nostalgia. For example, I race SCCA just fine, but no way could I afford to race F1, IndyCar, or ALMS. In ten years I have had numerous minor incidents, rolled once, had plenty of bumps and bruises and a permanently sore wrist from having the steering wheel wrenched in minor impacts and the expense and injuries would have been far worst in a crazy fast car. If you think you are a superstar racer immune to mistakes or bad luck you are kidding yourself - look at recent events with Massa and Kubica for example.

But I might just be able to swing a vintage Can Am or F1 car in an environment designed to reduce the risk of tearing up my toy or hurting me. So I do plan to do some vintage racing at some point, since I am getting more vintage myself

 

Having raced with VARA for a couple of seasons I have to say the allure of vintage racing is two fold:

First there is the challenge of taking a nearly 40 year old or older car out on the track. In my case it was a 1961 garage built MG powered sports racer. The only pedigree this car had was that it dripped oil on some of the same tracks as some of the great race cars of the day....but none the less it was fun. I must add that I enjoy working, tweaking, and re-engineering on the car as much as racing it. As they say "cheaper than therapy".

Second, is the camaraderie of the fellow racers in vintage. No one is going home with more than a flag or trophy so there is not the "ten tenths" style of racing that you commonly see in SCCA and NASA racing. It's not uncommon to see fellow competitors loaning parts and tools to one another so someone can make the grid in time for the next race. While it's not cheap, you can get by on a reasonable amount of money. I have seen the guys sleeping in the back of their truck parked next to the guys with double decker trailers, motor-homes and full support staff. Even though I have had to step away from vintage racing due to the down turn in my business and thus discretionary income, I still support and feel part of the vintage community. Depending on where you are find a vintage event and watch a couple of races then go walk around the paddock and strike up a conversation with someone that races a marque you are interested in, I think you may get taste of what vintage racing is about.

Cheers
Mark

P.S. My therapy now takes the form of a 79 308gtb and 4 webers instead of 1... The biggest difference is that I can drive this one every day instead of 9 times a year

 

What I don't understand is vintage seems to end about 1974. Why don't the likes of VARA allow a new model year into vintage as each new calender year comes along?

 

because the boomers run it?

 

Vintage is about showcasing the car. Occaisionally there is some really talented driver (or a pro ringer) that will show more of what the car may actually have been capable in its heyday.

What vintage is not is needing to finish first by sacrificing the car.

The Monterey Historics started because Steve Earle like to drive his 250 GTO on the track with the Ferrari Owners Club but wanted more opportunity to drive and drive with other similar level cars.

Jeff

 

There was nothing inexpensive about running in the Historic Challenge. And, depending on how you roll, there's nothing inexpensive, either, about HSR, LoM, SVRA or any other form of Historic/Vintage racing.

Whether it's "racing" or not, is an interesting question, but, for the most part a moot one. You've got mixed classes of totally different vehicles. So, frankly, how can a 30-year-old 914-6 "compete" with a 2000 GrandAm-spec Corvette? It's exactly one of the reasons why we're not going to show up at the FCRA with a historic GT-car. Why wring its neck? For what purpose?

But, Historic racing (and any other racing that doesn't "go" anywhere up a ladder) is about the fun, the cars, and doing your best. There were indeed good "races" going on in the Historic Challenge. There were up to 6 BBLMs running at any given event. That's pretty good intra-class competition. Some chose not to partake in that. Others did. Up to you. But, if you want to get your priceless car out in a relatively safe "racing" environment, the HC (and other series) was a good way to do it. The logic is: if everyone's ride is priceless, then the cost of contact can get pricey. So, contact is less likely. That's useful. I've been on a few grids and wondered whether the car next to me (or in front of me) was going to hold together for the first lap. Or, the fact that his fender costs 1/50th of what mine would cost to repair. Gives you some incentive NOT to trade any paint.

Also, considering that the average age of Historic/Vintage drivers is probably in the late 50's, it's not like they're interested in hyper-competitive, white-knuckle racing with 18-year-old up-and-comers trying to make a name for themselves, either. That doesn't mean they can't get around the track fast, though. Don't think these guys aren't pushing to the best of their abilities. Some are FAST, and you could easily see them driving in GrandAm. Probably not ALMS, IRL or NASCAR, but they could do pretty well in a number of televised series. Actually, that Audi R8 was lapping PBIR recently at 1:16s. Maybe a pro driver can get it around faster, but we're getting down to a second or two a lap difference. Not 10 seconds.

CW

 

true, no racing is cheap.

 

all old and older race cars deserve a place to run free.

 

I like the strict non-contact of vintage because it sucks to have to fix body damage. I just had to do that and it took me 6 months to get my car back together and dialed in perfect as before my last wreck. But after you take modern chassis car through their paces with awesome brakes, incredible balance chassis and awesome engine power it is hard to get excited about carburators, live axles, and wetnoodle 1970's technology. When you have tasted the 360 scuderia how can you be happy in a fiberglass 308gtb? I'm with Dale I don't get vintage either. And for the rrecord in scca clubracing we share our tools and spares to get each othergoing so wecan beat each other on the track. I think Our comraderie is just as good asin vintage although we do have some guys who think they are going to turn pro.

 

That pretty much sums it up for me. I love driving an open wheel car, and even my '78 formula ford is more fun to run than any other car I have ever been in. But there is no way I am going to race open wheel SCCA. I have a paying job and a family that relies on me, and I am enjoying life as it is thus far. No need to mess that up pretending to be something I am not.

 

I think vintage racing is great. I caught a race on HDNet a while back and I couldn't stop watching. It was a blast seeing 250 GTOs go up against Shelbys and Jags.

 

It's a bunch of guys dreaming. Some shouldn't be there, some should. no rhyme or reason in the rules from each sanctioning body. Nice to see some of the vehicles in their natural environment, but 'racing'? It isn't.

A nice summers day, at a nice track, lots of short track sessions, make for a nice day out. the fact that the enduros have become popular is ruining that experience, they're boring and impossible to follow.