911 or Cayman

Tell me about it.

 

All depends on how you want to use the car. Go back 12 months ago and I just bought an 05 Boxster S, which was my 3rd Boxster. Got this crazy idea to get a 360, sold the Boxster S without even registering it and bought a 2000 Ferrari 360. I don't think you can compare the cars. To me, the 360 was outrageous in a fantastic way. Kept it for 6 months, put 1000 miles on it and bought another 2005 Boxster S. The Boxster is my fair weather daily driver and I absolutely love the feel and handling of the car but I can't stop thinking about getting another Ferrari someday. I just like that I can put 15K a year on my Boxster and use it in more situations, like for work, etc.

 

You don't take percentages to the bank. Base for a Cayman is in the low 50s. Base for a 997 is in the high 80s. You do the math.

Compared to the 997 the Cayman has a more "sporty" ride. Some of us like that. Based on sales numbers, most don't.

Dale

 

I'd rather have the Cayman S or Boxster S, than a base 911. To be honest, I lost all interest in 911s with the release of the 996. I don't like how large it became, its looks, or that it really moved more towards being a comfortable GT car than a sports car. The Caymans/Boxsters mid engine set up give them handling that is tough for a 997 to match. I know a few guys that went from 997s to Boxster Spyders and they say they are a lot more fun to drive. Not to mention, many enthusiasts have said the main reason the Cayman/Boxsters don't have more power is that Porsche is afraid it would canibalize 911 sales. Don't get me wrong the 997 is a nice car, and it will always sell reasonably well because of the cache some people feel a 911 has over any other P cars, but aside from maybe a GT3 I'd have no interest in the current 997s.

To me the "911s" that are truly cars I'd want are the air cooled cars of the past. Not comfortable daily drivers the waymodern Porsche are, but they are a lot of fun with such classic beauty that I never get tired of seeing them.

But go drive the cars and see what you think.
Best regards,
Dino

 

Would the original poster consider a Carrera 4? The grip with the all-wheel drive has to be experienced to be believed. I have a 2002 Boxster and thought it handled excellently, until I test drove 911s for my new car. No comparison.

 

If I was going to leave them stock (and did not have twin boys) CaymenS would be my choice

 

I think Ferrari has "softened" over the years and Porsche has added some serious track weapons (if we overlook the Cayenne minivan...)

The other aspect is that Ferraris tend to babied and the miles kept off the odometer, whereas Porsches typically are used. There are exceptions both ways, obviously, but it does seem to be the rule.

How many would you have?

 

Finally did it - ordered my C2S (coupe) yesterday, late June delivery but it is a 2012 model.

Per my salesman, there are now 11 coupe build slots left in the US, end of the 997.2 is near.

 

Hi Phil. I wonder about these stats. My 997.1 C2S tips the scales at 3131 I think. It feels very light and quick. I can't believe the 997.2is that much heavier.
Jim

 

Congradulations! I think you will be very happy.
J

 

For a thorough assessment of the 993 air-cooled vs. the new 996 water-cooled, read the 996 road test in the August 1998 issue of Excellence magazine. Additional contributions to the article came from Hurley Haywood.

Here are some points in the article that identify some of the major improvements made by Porsche in the new water-cooled model as well as impressions of the testers.

"The 993 lacks the poise and balance of the new 996. And it's a lot less comfortable to drive. My head feels pressed against the glass of the old upright windshield, and the floor-mounted clutch and brake pedals preclude heel and toeing."

"The longer wheelbase (up 3") and widened track (up 2") of the 996 optimize the rear-engined platform. The quantum improvement from 993 to 996 far exceeds the wampum leap Porsche made from the Carrera 2 to the 993."

"The laden ground clearance of the 996 is 1" less than that of the 993, effectively lowering the new 911's center of gravity."

"The gearchange is so much better than anything Porsche has done before...."

"Significantly, the new 3.4 liter motor is not only 26 hp more powerful than the old one (despite being 200 cc smaller) but it is also 110 pounds lighter than the old lump."


No matter which Porsche one chooses, however, I can't help but think that the buyer will likely be rewarded by the ownership experience.

Good luck.

 

Hmm...I'd take issue with most of the points made in that review.

"The 993 lacks the poise and balance of the new 996. And it's a lot less comfortable to drive. My head feels pressed against the glass of the old upright windshield, and the floor-mounted clutch and brake pedals preclude heel and toeing."

I disagree on all accounts. I'm 6'3" and never felt confined in any way - in any 911 for that matter. I also never realized just how lucky I was to have owned the only 993 where heel-toe shifting was possible.


"The longer wheelbase (up 3") and widened track (up 2") of the 996 optimize the rear-engined platform"

It made the car as easy to drive as a Camry, which is not a good thing. The 911 was de-balled, for lack of a better term.

"The gearchange is so much better than anything Porsche has done before...."

Really? The 993 gearbox was both stout and positive. During the 12 years I owned mine I never had an issue with it or thought it was lagging behind the 996.

In 1998 during the launch of the H2O 911, there's no way a Porsche-specific magazine was going to slam the product that their publication was going to revolve around. Of course, with the new car it was all blue skies and sunshine at that point. I'm not saying the 996 is bad car - its not -but you'd be hard-pressed to find a single Excellence writer in 2011 who thinks the 996 is a better car than 993 in virtually any way.

 

Guys, sorry if I'm getting us off topic here. Here's the thing, a lot of people like the last of the air cooled 911s. So they are sometimes pretty expensive. To get an idea of prices I look on EBAY. A nice "last of the air cooled" was mid 60K. I happened to notice that the GT2s are about that same money for slightly newer, meaning 2002.

What is your opinion of the GT2? This one, for instance the guy is asking 77K but says he's negotiable, so maybe 70K. Is there a problem with the GT2s? It would seem like a lot of performance compared to the 993.

Please ignore whether this particular car is a good buy. Or whether EBAY is the place to buy a car. I'm just wondering about whether the GT2 from this era has issues.
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I believe the GT2 used the same block as the air cooled 911s. Therefore, no IMS or RMS issues. From what I have been told they are bullet proof cars and exceptionally overbuilt.

 

Interesting debate. Since I'm thinking about a Cayman S I'm interested to see what you guys have to say.

Personally I'd agree with the comment that the 911 has become the GT of the Porsches. This used to be the fast and nimble sportscar but I'm no fan of their design anymore. Plus I really like the concept of the midengine in the Cayman. And the fact that Walter Roehrl took it around the Ring in record time is a big plus in my book.

From reading a review of the Cayman R it seems to me that is purely a track car: They took out A/C to save a few pounds? Puleaze! The A/C is one of the reason I'm thinking about a new car in the first place.

Any word on the maintenance of a Cayman S?

How easy is it for the mechanics to get to the engine and do all the work? As a 308 owner I'm still bruised and battered from my last belt change bill (parts: 500 bucks, labor: thousands of $).

And since some mentioned that it is stiff/hard for long distances: How does it compare to a 308? Which IMHO is about as comfortable as a gokart...

 

From what I have read, when it came time to designing the 996/986 cars Porsche looked to the expertise of the Toyota, among others to build reliable and easy to maintain platforms. As a result, modern Porsches are very easy to work on and dropping the engine to do thorough services is a relatively simple affair.

Before getting the Boxster S, I drove all manner of new and vintage 911s. I do think the new 911s are more GT cars, with the exception of specialty cars like the GT3. I absolutely adore the older air cooled 911s, and can't say a bad thing about them, but when it ultimately came down to it, I bought a Boxster S. I love the balance of the chassis and it has power for days, while making a great sound in the process. I found it much more entertaining than a new 911. I also like the handling balance more than the older 911s, which can be a bit sketchy in the turns if not driven appropriately and with respect.

If you want a car with character for days, get an aircooled 911. If you are looking for a more modern Porsche, you really can't go wrong with a Cayman or Boxster.


Just my .02

 

As updated Boxster S owner I totally agree. And the Boxster Spyder is arguably the best looking Pcar made today. I wanted a softer ride and creature comforts like heated/ventilated seats and Bose surround sound, power top to name a few. My neighbor has a new Spyder which is scheduled to be delivered this May. Can't wait to see it and experience the ride. My neighbor upgraded from his Cayman (not S).

911 rear ends do not appeal to me. I would rather have two trunks than a trunk with a faux back seat.

The 4wd drive 911s corner like practically nothing else. Truly amazing. But the BS is no slouch in the twisties IMVO...can you say; fun to drive.

Life is good.

 

I believe you can order the car with an A/C. But, frankly, for a road car, the Cayman S is a better deal.

BAWHAHAHAHAHA! You actually think ve will let YOU work on our cars. To the Russian front for you.

Compared to a 308 a Cayman is a luxo boat. Compared to a 911 it is a skate board.

Dale

 

I'm getting that feeling every time I drive a rental. Even the most basic one

Anyhow tks all for the comments. Very encouraging.

 

As I'm considering buying a Cayman S used are there any better/ less good years of the model?

Sorry for the newbie question.

 

The only Porsche I've ever driven is the 993. I can't really say much about the handling as I wasn't pushing it hard (it's Dad's car and I was on a road). It does feel great to drive though - very direct steering input, loud engine, and plenty of power. I've heard some people say the front end washes out when driving aggressively, but I don't think that's a characteristic you'd ever encounter in even the most spirited of road driving.

Having said that, I do really like the look of the Cayman. I just like the concept of the car more... mid-engined, storage front and back, just the two seats, and the focus is on handling rather than pure power - which I think would give a car far more track potential. From what I've read, it's relatively easy to uprate power, but much harder to "correct" a vehicle's basic track dynamics without very drastic modifications.

That Cayman Targa looks fantastic - I do hope they build that.

I've got a glass roof in my SmartCar and it's a feature I do enjoy. I just don't like the idea of owning a convertible as I feel very vulnerable in them - the security of a solid structure overhead is very appealing. I would want to know what happens to the glass in the event of a rollover though - would it maintain integrity or would it shower the passengers with glass and expose limbs to road abrasion?

Just hypothetically, what if the 911 didn't have such a long proud history? If, knowing nothing else about the past of either car and nothing about the perceived prestige associated with the specific model, both cars were launched for the very first time today to a completely new market... which would be the more desirable? The nimble two-seater sportscar, or the powerful 2+2 GT car?

I would personally choose the Cayman, but I wonder what everyone else would do.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

I have a bit of experience with these cars, and I have always said (still do) if you are leaving the cars stock I'd say Caymen, if not stock (that would mean my definition of not stock) 911. Yes the new cars are more GT's, damn they even have vented seats, makes me ill just thinking about that one.

 

Not that I'm aware off. These cars have been pretty bullet proof. If you want the PDK, you'll have to get a 2009 or newer. Don't scoff. The PDK is the best transmission I have ever driven - period.

BTW, I got the Cayman versus the "S" because (1) I'm cheap, and (2) I deliberately wanted to downsize power for a DD. I drive this car like a Spec Miata. That is, I'm either on the brake or pedal. Flooring it is a hoot. Lots of cool noise, motion, and legal. Screw U John Law.

Dale

 

If you are going for a used Cayman S/ Boxster S get a 2007 or newer. 2007 & 2008 are the last of the 1st Generation 987 Caymans/Boxsters. They have a bit more power, but more importantly they also have upgraded Intermediate Shaft (IMS) bearings. IMS failure basically results in needing an engine replacement. IMS failures at least from what I've heard (knock on wood since I have an 08 Boxster RS60), seem less frequent on the 2007&2008 (upgraded bearings) vs older models. There are still a very good number of Boxsters on the road that are 10-15 years old, so for the most part the cars are really well built.

If you want to avoid IMS go with a 2009 or newer. They are Gen 2 987s. The only issue I've heard with them is something about a lot of carbon and soot build up. IIRC its the result of them having Direct Fuel Injection. I don't know if they have resolved that issue. 2009 and later cars have more HP and Torque than the Gen 1 cars. S versions have 320HP vs. 295 and about 270 lb/ft vs. 251 for torque.

I had my 2008 Boxster RS60 out the other day with a friend that just took delivery of a new Boxster Spyder and we both enjoyed the drive.

If you want a classic Porsche go with an air cooled car...they're beautiful and not the bloated GTs that are currently offered. I briefly considered an air cooled car, but then figured it might be nice to have something a little more modern, less raw & with some creature comforts that my 328 doesn't have.

Best regards,
Dino