steering rack rebuilt but 246 still pulls to left under braking | Page 2 | FerrariChat

steering rack rebuilt but 246 still pulls to left under braking

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Pantdino, Apr 28, 2011.

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  1. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Too easy mate. :):)
     
  2. GT4 Joe

    GT4 Joe Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2010
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    Joe Williams
    Wow! Lots of good advice on the brake system here. Don't forget to check your wheel alignment specs also. Uneven caster/camber could give you pull also. Also try road force balancing the wheels & tires. Tire pull? Just my 2 cents.
    Joe
     
  3. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    The problem would be opening the bleeder valve EXACTLY the same amount on the two sides. Basically impossible.
     
  4. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    #29 Pantdino, Apr 30, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
    Caster and camber is changed on these cars by adding and removing shims, no? So unless something is bent those will not change.
    I did not hit any curbs or anything to cause this problem to come up.

    Also, I can't imagine an alignment problem that would allow the car to go straight down the road with the steering wheel centered but jerk strongly to one side under braking.
     
  5. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    Actually the teflon -SS lines are cheaper than the rubber ones from Ferrari vendors.
    I got teflon-SS lines for my Pantera for $15 each from Jegs.
    The cheapest I've found for rubber ones from the vendors is $60.

    The only rub so far I've found is that I will need 2 AN-metric adapters per wheel at $20 per adapter-- so it still ends up about the same and I'll have a better part..
     
  6. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    That's a good idea- I'll have to call around and see if any shops are not just "R+R" places but can actually make their own hoses.
     
  7. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    +1, brake calipers and brake lines are the common culprits, the brake lines swell over time and the failure is not always an immdeiate transition from good to bad braking.

    I would also recommend speed bleeder caliper bleed valves.
     
  8. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    I'm going to pull the right front caliper apart just to be sure a piston isn't binding, but the flexible lines are going to be replaced too.

    I find an assistant (my wife doesn't complain too much) and the "push down-close valve when pedal is at bottom--let up--open valve-- push down--system is best.
     
  9. Sunracer

    Sunracer Formula Junior

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    Have some one watch as you do a drive by and hit the brakes-if you have suspension problems you may well be able to see the wheel moving to toe out or some other misbehavior-you will then know if there is an issue with the suspension or not
     
  10. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #35 DGS, May 1, 2011
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
    Parts wear, metal compresses, and the shims can be squeezed down.
    It's possible for the alignment to shift, over time.

    Otherwise, you'd just make the car unadjustable with the alignment set at the factory, and never have to change it.
    (Short of impact damage).

    But that's not the case.
    (Except on econoboxes which are designed to be replaced rather than repaired.)

    When you hit the brakes, you shift the weight forward. That creates an interaction with the suspension geometry.

    "Bump steer" is an example of a suspension issue where the car will track straight until you hit a bump.


    Pulling under braking is most likely something with the brakes themselves.
    But it's a good idea to check the suspension alignment from time to time.
    I usually have the alignment checked whenever I get new tires.

    You might want to check for a dent in the hardline (between the front junction and the soft line at the wheel).
     
  11. GT4 Joe

    GT4 Joe Formula Junior

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    Thanks for clarifying that DGS. I had thought Pantdino would be open to eliminate any possible causes because, ultimately, he wants the problem resolved.
    Joe
     
  12. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    I think it is logical to concentrate on the right front brake first.
    I had my wife press lightly then more firmly on the pedal (with the engine off, so no power boost) while I compared how hard it was to turn the front wheels, and the right was slightly easier to turn. Both pistons are pushing the pad against the rotor, but I have no way of measuring how hard.

    Last time I drove the car I took my hands off the wheel and stabbed the brakes on a smooth road. The wheel jerked 90 degrees to the left at like lightning speed before I grabbed it.

    So this is not a subtle problem.

    I looked at the a-arms and bushings and they look OK. The bushings show cracks in the rubber but there are no missing pieces (like there were in my rear bushings before I replaced them.)

    I'm going to replace all the flexible lines and disassemble the right caliper to check it and we'll see if the problem goes away.
     
  13. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    I had a brake "pull" on my 355, only 4 months after a pad change, SS brake lines and brake bleed. It was found I had cooked the pads from agressive braking and they needed to be replaced.
     
  14. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    I think I found the problem. I took the right front caliper off and found that while the inboard piston could be pressed inward some by hand (the pads are basically new so the pistons were basically all the way back in the bores) the outboard piston would not budge. When I applied compressed air to the caliper the inboard piston came out and the outboard barely moved. I had to reinsert and restrain the inboard piston with C-clamps (to keep pressure in the system) to get the outboard piston out.

    The portions of the pistons and bores deep to the pressure seals look good but the outboard piston bore has some rust superficial to the seal (the inboard piston has some too)-- so at the opening of the bore.

    A Scotchbrite pad seems to do nothing-- what should I use on the rusty metal there? Steel wool? A Dremel tool with wire brush?
    I'm thinking I'll leave the old pressure seal in to protect the deeper part of the bore while I work on the opening area.

    Jim
     
  15. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Take some pictures.
     
  16. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Had this happen on a car and it was slightly loose tie rod ends. The front right deflected under the braking load and it pulled rather badly to the right. It doesn't take much play to have it do this.
     
  17. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    bingo.

    replace the flex hoses and calipers. The hoses should be replaced every 10 years or so depending how the car is used.
     
  18. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    There's only a few things that can cause pulling. Start with the cheapest or easiest to find fault first. Sometimes it's more than one.

    Alignment

    worn suspension

    Tires

    Unequal brake pressure.
     
  19. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    I thought it was the obviously worn steering rack carrier bushing that was causing this, but rebuilding / replacing everything and curing that obvious problem made no difference in the braking pull.
     
  20. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Have someone experienced with that car put it up on a rack and check all of the suspension pieces for wear and deflection. Have him drive it too. You're in LA. I'm sure there's someone very qualified on that car in your area. A very cheap investment with a big potential return. Guessing is expensive. There are lot's of good suggestions in this thread. They can't all be the problem. Want to keep guessing which is correct?
     
  21. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    I think there's over a 90% chance it was that stiff piston causing the problem. It shouldn't take 50psi of air pressure to get a piston out of a bore.
    It had an area of dark corrosion where the surface was pitted and my theory is that it was binding / stuck to the pressure seal.
    I have ordered a rebuild kit, new SS brake lines, and an SS piston from superformance UK.
     

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