I've had my fill of aircraft ownership! | FerrariChat

I've had my fill of aircraft ownership!

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by MYMC, May 3, 2011.

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  1. MYMC

    MYMC Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2006
    326
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Never ever believe advertising...I made the mistake of buying/believing the Avidyne DFC90 promotion... another mistake in my aviation ownership education.

    Supposedly, the install complete including labor was $9995.00...I just got the supplemental bill of $6000! You may ask what the additional $6000 is for, well at this point I have no idea just a phone message from Skytech wanting to know where their check is.

    An installation that was supposed to take a day two at most, took three months. The autopilot has not worked as advertised and still doesn't (now has a porpoise at cruise). I have emails documenting that Avidyne will cover the diagnostic costs and get it figured out; however, I now have the $6000 bill. The real insult is no phone call or email from anyone at Skytech... just a phone call wanting their check.

    I should have known better, given the number of issues I've had with Avidyne in the Cirrus, I have to question my sanity of spending more money with a company that has such a terrible track record with me and my aircraft!

    The plane needs to go, I've had enough.
     
  2. CavalloRosso

    CavalloRosso Formula 3

    Jul 12, 2007
    1,423
    Atlanta, GA/Vail, CO
    Full Name:
    SVO
    That's really too bad. From your previous posts, it sure sounds like you've had nothing but bad luck with that plane.
     
  3. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2005
    3,584
    Behind a drum kit
    Full Name:
    Mr. Chupacabra
    Sorry to hear you have yet again encountered more expensive troubles. It really stinks when something you are so excited about becomes something that just stresses you out and makes you wait around wondering when the next $%^tstorm is coming.

    I'm with ya...I totally get the "you gotta pay to play" thing, but with airplanes, money is the only way to fix bad luck...and sometimes that stings a bit.
     
  4. SloW8

    SloW8 Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2010
    345
    Sorry about your troubles. I have a side question. Do you have to pay insurance when the plane is parked in maint. for 3 months?
     
  5. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
    6,375
    ATL/CHS/MIA
    Full Name:
    Jason
    Well, you shouldn't have bought a Cirrus in the first place. I had one and was lucky enough to get rid of it. I love my Beech.
     
  6. MYMC

    MYMC Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2006
    326
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Well, IMHO it is best to leave it in place should anything happen; however, when we had one out of service for 8 months we did get the insurance company to suspend the policy.

    What really sucks is the subscriptions... Jeppesen, XM etc so far we have never been able to get them to suspend or credit when the aircraft was down for extended periods.
     
  7. MYMC

    MYMC Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2006
    326
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Hey thanks, how about a paper cut and some lemon juice? :)

    Lesson learned... next time it will be a Beech.
     
  8. Blue@Heart

    Blue@Heart F1 Rookie

    Jun 20, 2006
    3,889
    Yellowknife, NWT
    Full Name:
    David
    I'm sorry to call you out but I have to here:

    First off either you were lied to outright, OR you're greatly exadgerating your case in order to gain attention on the internet. First of this doesn't sound right, a full turbine class autopilot install doesn't take "a couple of days". It'll take a BARE MINIMUM of a week just to do the wiring, and that assumes that your airplane is the only thing your tech will work on in that time. Second following that week of install the unit has to be calibrated, tweaked and troubleshot (several flight tests will be required for this too!). I don't care how good you are, that'll be another week.

    So we're up to two weeks BARE minimum and that assumes the guy is only doing YOUR airplane.

    Any shop equiped to do this level of install will also probably be doing work on bigger more complex airplanes as well, therefore you're the "small fish".

    Third: That $10k you were quoted? Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah it was for the unit only (and that's about what the market is like on a box of that complexity).
    Proof of that is in an Avidyne press release located on the Avidyne site here: http://www.avidyne.com/news/press.asp?release=247

    $6000 sounds like it's in the right ballpark for labor and installation supplies for that install.


    I'm sorry this happened to you but either you were told what you wanted to hear and you bought it hook line and sinker without doing the due diligence associated with a 10,000 capital purchase, or you are lying to us...
     
  9. dailyferraridriver

    dailyferraridriver Formula 3
    Owner

    Nov 12, 2010
    1,402
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Erik
    Wow, why the Cirrus hate? My partner has had 2 of them and loves them. I'm looking into one now - Sr22.

    Thanks,
    Erik
     
  10. MYMC

    MYMC Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2006
    326
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Call me out? I lied or exaggerated? There truly is nothing better than someone that actually chooses to open their mouth and prove they have no idea what they are talking about...

    Here is the ad: http://www.avidyne.com/landing/dfc90/index.asp
    Since it is aparent you have trouble reading I'll assist... $9995 includes installation costs. The system is a "drop-in" and uses the current wiring in the aircraft. A PFD modification is all that is required and as such a replacement PFD was waiting when the aircraft was dropped off. As stated on the Avidyne website you SHOULD be able to do the entire install in a single day.

    $6000 sounds right to you? For what exactly? You did actually read the entire DFC90 web pages before calling me a liar or accusing me of resorting to internet extortion right? Oh ya, I guess the emails I have from the president of Avidyne stating they will cover ALL diagnostics to discover why the unit was not operating as advertised mean nothing? Oops I forgot, I'm a small fish and hear what I want to hear...

    BTW, who said anything about a "turbine class autopilot"? We are talking about an SR22... since you are so educated about aircraft there must be some turbine SR22 available that no one but you knows about.

    When and if I need the internet to assist me in extortion I'll be sure and let you know... till that time I'll settle for people and companies DOING WHAT THEY SAY AND STANDING BEHIND NOT ONLY THEIR WORD BUT THEIR PRODUCT. I know I know, what a concept!

    I have no need to lie, exaggerate or anything else you accuse me of because I am stating facts. I'll be more than happy to open log books, credit card receipts, contracts etc to prove my case... I do not post these things lightly.

    Keep your feigned sympathy and your lofty opinion, based on what I see here they carry the same value.
     
  11. Blue@Heart

    Blue@Heart F1 Rookie

    Jun 20, 2006
    3,889
    Yellowknife, NWT
    Full Name:
    David
    First off in order to accuse you of extortion I would have had to accuse you of trying to get something out the members here, or anyone else. Which you have not, nor have I accused you of that.

    I did say that either you were lied to OR you didn't do your due diligence and are now complaining about.

    I followed the link, and I see no reference to labour being included in that quote. Second I also checked in with an Avidyne dealer acquittance of mine to confirm that the purchase aggreement for the DFC90 located on the Avidyne site (here: http://www.avidyne.com/downloads/products/dfc90/DFC90-Agreement-Form.pdf) is accurate (it is btw)

    it says:
    That $6000 probably covered the rewiring of the system (easily several miles of wire), the integration of the new system into the airplane (an autopilot controller is not as simple to do post install on as say... a comm), and the post install troubleshooting (of which there ALWAYS is some). All of this can EASILLY top 60 hours...

    Oh and just because your airplane isn't a turbine airplane doesn't mean that your autopilot isn't turbine class ;) Full authority, attitude based autopilots aren't usually seen on pistons.

    I invite you to post a pdf of your labor quote and unit quote for all to see :)
     
  12. MYMC

    MYMC Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2006
    326
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #12 MYMC, May 4, 2011
    Last edited: May 4, 2011
    "Exaggerating my case to gain attention on the internet" i.e. internet extortion... pretty much says it all.

    Apparently your "Avidyne acquaintance is as knowledgeable as you are... here is just one of the emails from the inside sales manager:

    Thank you for your quote request for the DFC90 digital autopilot, it was a pleasure speaking with you this morning.

    The attitude-based DFC90 uses the digital information from your PFD to provide a better, crisper, and smoother ride than the STEC 55, while adding key safety benefits like Envelope Protection and Straight & Level capability. A lot has been said and written about both the performance and the safety features of the DFC90, but I feel the biggest safety benefits are all associated with the attitude-based digital performance. Having an autopilot that does not blow through altitudes and intercepts is a safer autopilot. Having an autopilot that can be flown down to minimums on a windy day is a safer autopilot. Having an autopilot that reduces mode confusion by providing you an armed and active indication for what the autopilot is doing and what it will do next, is a safer autopilot. These are all safety benefits that make the DFC90 a safer autopilot than what you are used to with the 55X.

    In addition, here are the top 5 reasons to buy the DFC90. Please click on the hyperlink to learn more-

    · Digital v. Analog Autopilot (Ride on Rails)

    · Straight & Level Feature

    · Envelope Protection Feature , (Also see recent FLYING article)

    · Increased capabilities

    · Money Back Guarantee


    Please review this information as well as the attached DFC90 agreement. You will notice the agreement states a deadline of November, 2010, but due to high demand we have extended this offer through the end of the year. The $9,995 price represents a great value for the DFC90 autopilot, as the STEC55X sells for $15,000 and it is rate based and doesn’t provide any of the safety benefits.
    I attached a DFC90 promotion agreement that you can complete with your credit card information that you can email or fax to my attention. Remember that Avidyne offers a 100% satisfaction money-back guarantee where, if for any reason you are not satisfied with your DFC90 Autopilot Flight Computer over the S-TEC 55X, Avidyne will refund the cost of your upgrade and reinstall the S-TEC 55X.

    As I mentioned during our conversation, Exec Air LLC in Hilton Head is offering installation included in the $9,995 price. I know you need to consult with your aircraft partner, but I have no doubt you would both be thrilled with the performance of the DFC90, and would love to have you join the more than 500 other Cirrus pilots and owners that have made the DFC90 part of their flight deck.


    Dave Bashy

    Inside Territory Manager
    55 Old Bedford Road
    Lincoln, MA 01773
    (781)402-7583, f: (781)402-7597
    [email protected]


    No wonder general aviation is what it is... with people like you involved it will stay the tiny dying business it is...

    My mother used to tell me that it was better to let people think you stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt... (you should read this sentence over and over again)

    Based on your "avionics" career I find it difficult to believe you keep going on and on about wiring when the very website you quote explains it is a "drop-in" using all the old Stec-55x wiring.

    I give up, you are far too "knowledgeable" for me.
     
  13. Aedo

    Aedo F1 Rookie

    Feb 22, 2006
    3,616
    Perth
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Can't you just tell them "take it out and give me my money back"?

    That should squash the $6k invoice for starters :)
     
  14. MYMC

    MYMC Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2006
    326
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Well at this point we are making progress... As I understand it I was billed for the install labor which we had already paid for. Further I was billed for diagnostics that Avidyne requested to discover the issues that were making the DFC90 not operate as advertised, which Avidyne is covering. Further I was charged for a new #1 battery that died during ground testing and the installer advised they are covering that.

    It would appear at this point there was some double/multiple billing going on which I'm sure was a front office mistake that was multiplied by the amount of time and frustrations with all this. The lack of communication before calling and demanding a $6000 payment is still disturbing.

    To answer you directly if the "porpoise" at cruise cannot be fixed (soon) we will be removing the autopilot and going back to the Stec-55X.
     
  15. Aedo

    Aedo F1 Rookie

    Feb 22, 2006
    3,616
    Perth
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Great to hear some positive progress being made :)
     
  16. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2005
    3,584
    Behind a drum kit
    Full Name:
    Mr. Chupacabra
    Just out of curiosity, what do you estimate is the actual period of the porpoise-ing, crest to crest? It sounds REALLY annoying. I'm imagining you doing a constant stream of mini-hyperbolas/parabolas and wretching your guts out :)
     
  17. Pepsi10

    Pepsi10 Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2008
    855
    InlandNorthWest
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    I'm glad this is getting sorted out and it seems like the $10K is all you should have to shell out.

    Can you keep us informed about the work and your decision whether to keep the Cirrus?

    My current and probably future finances will not allow purchase of such a nice plane. But, ever since they were created, I've always admired them.

    Loved the:
    "Hey thanks, how about a paper cut and some lemon juice?"

    comment. And the rest...
     

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