Next 599 'to have 700bhp

Yes, an excellent point. However, if they were to ditch the luggage shelf behind the seats, I would think there would be ample room. Especially if the new flat 12 was a smaller displacement unit revving to 10,000 RPM. But now we are in pie in the sky land. I'd take a any mid 12 cyl, V or flat!

 

Which is why it would be better suited to an ultra Enzo type of car. In a daily/weekend car a la the 599 you need room for a bit of luggage and/or golf clubs.

 

Yes but I'm still going off the page 2 slide. More performance-oriented, higher price than 599 GTO. Although I'm starting to think the axis on the slide's matrix is not to proper scale.

 

May I suggest that that chart is missing a column? The Enzo replacement .

 

I believe it's there- top right sitting outside the box.

 

Must be looking at differen chart

 

The one posted on page 2 of this thread by MVA. New Ferrari Enzo, top right corner in its own red box.

 

Ah. Now I see.
I'm not sure with what precision it was placed there. Or is it just too wild to be contained in any box?
In any case its above and beyond the 599 and GTO.

 

Yes, but it is the placement of the 599 replacement on the chart that intrigues me. Notice higher price, more extreme performance, LESS versatility than the current 599 series, including the the 599 GTO.

Specifically, it is the LESS versatility part that would give me some hope for a mid-engine layout.

 

I don't see a versatility axis on the chart. You assume that more performance equals less usability. With few, if any, exceptions every new Ferrari has been more civilized and faster than its direct predecessor.

 

Dude! It's written right on the chart on the X axis. Versatility goes to the left, Extreme Performance goes to the right!

You'll see that the 599 is somewhere between the Cali/FF and the Italia. The 599 replacement, however, is placed in line with Italia, on the axis. i.e. the implication is the same performance focus and versatility level of the mid-engined Italia.

 

Right you are (how do you keep changing the chart? )
I don't think the comparison holds though. A mid eight is inherently easier to package than a twelve.

 

LOL. Fair enough.

 

No, I do not think so. Ferrari is moving towards an eight year cycle for completely new designs with an M version in the middle. With four basic cars, that is a new car/M every year. The 599 was first introduced in 2006 and the replacement is due in 2012, so missed that cycle. The new 599 will be based on the FF chassis and the engine will likely be an upgrade of the FF's 6.3 liter unit. If you look at the potential for that new V12 unit, proportioning the 458's 4.5 liters and ~560 hp, the 599's potential, without pushing things, is 6.3/4.5 x 560=784 hp, all of which would not pop up on the intitial model to leave room for growth. Biggest problem will be keeping rear tires from disappearing in clouds of smoke. Nanny to the rescue.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

That's what Four wheel drive is for.

 

David- I think the California M or its replacement will get four wheel drive, but not the 599 replacement. Been wrong in the past, though, so who knows?

Would be nice to see the 599 replacement in international sports car racing like the 550 and F430/458. No four wheel drive allowed on those cars.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Hallelujah. The 550/575 GTC was one of the best looking GT racecars of all time, IMO. Would be great to see a Ferrari in GT1.

 

It seems to me that Ferrari would need to use it broadly to recoup its investment. While I prefer the purity of keeping steering and propulsion on separate axles it is getting to the point where putting the huge HP down needs intervention of some sort.

 

Exactly. It will be the front-engined, mid-mount GT to end all GTs. No one else even tries to make this type of car any more, so why would Ferrari stop making one? The 599 and 612 allowed them to work out the kinks of the front-engine, behind the front axle design, and now they're ready to perfect the layout, as seen with the FF and now the 599 replacement.

I expect it to be visually and dynamically head and shoulders above the 599.

The real key to this model though is the use of aluminum instead of CF. The Mac has thrown down the gauntlet with the CF tub and will force Ferrari to step up and surpass it if possible with aluminum. That's why the aluminium statement is really the most important part of the source's quotes. Ferrari's overall pre-eminence demands greater and better use and performance from AL, at least equal to the CF tub.

This upcoming 599 replacement will be the opening salvo of Ferrari's reply. The 458 replacement will be the definitive answer.

Thank you Mclaren. haha

 

Sounds a bit like Ferrari's response to Lamborghini's Miura. The Daytona.

 

Hallelujah again! The 550GTS and 575GTC is one of my favorite racing cars of all time. I was very sad that the 599 was never made in this way. I desperately want another Ferrari V12 front engined racing car... Not sure it will happen though

 

And Enzo has the last laugh when his called "old fashioned" car proved to be faster than the Miuria....

 

I'd prefer old school to old fashioned

 

That's interesting but why have 3 mid-engine cars?

I still think the 599 replacement will be a GT simply because of tradition and differentiation between models. The FF is a truly unprecedented four-seater all-weather GT. The California is the "softer" 2-seater at an entry level price with the 458 being the everyday toy rocket, mid-engined.

If the Enzo replacement is going to move the performance envelope that close to F1 it's going to be mid-engined.

To me, this leaves a gaping hole for a front-mid coupe GT with performance near the Enzo replacement but much more everyday friendly...something like the Aston One 77 but better. The ultimate GT.

Besides, the front-mid V12 layout now has all the kinks worked out, thanks to the 612, 599, HGTE and GTO as well as the XX.

I'll be astonished if it's not a front-mid.