Exhaust gases and diffusers...

Lotus may win thier first race

btw just read the rest of the thread... sorta now

 

They are running the engine as lean as possible while off throttle but with having the throttle bodies open to keep lots of air flowing through the engine. The engines this year have been using 10% more fuel than last year I heard because of this kind of system.

 

Oh right....I guess they could just turn fuel flow off completely. no engine braking...obviously it doesn't matter.

 

Now, if we could only get them to remove ALL devices, controls and readouts from the steering wheel except for a kill switch and radio PTT button, I'd love it.
I want a shifter back in the car...

 

Hey it's too late, they shafted this new rule. Perhaps they will bring it back once teams have had a chance to come to grips with it or something.

 

So they could still do it if they didn't have the ultra lean maps (at the expense of fuel consumption)?

Would the throttle open and engine map switch once the brake pedal is pressed?

 

The way they are trying to control it is to make it so that when the throttle is open at its max they say that is 100% open. When the car is under braking and the driver is not on the gas pedal, the throttle can not be open more than 10% of the maximum it can open.

 

Right, but now drivers are going to be trying to rev the engine as much as possible into the corners to keep the back end as stable as possible for big entry speeds. Those who are good at heel and toe type footwork will be good at it.

 

Looks to me as if the FIA are looking at mixing things up a bit.

Clever means or interpretations around the rules getting tweaked, as and when, as long as it doesn't hark back to the Mosley type of dictator rulings I'am ok with it.

 

no need for heel/toe. F1 drivers use their left foot for braking.

 

Right, but manipulating the throttle under braking was the point of me saying heel/toe people should be good at it even though it's not at all heel/toe.


So, this rule is indeed coming, and the couple weeks between Turkey and Spain were just not enough for everyone to be comfortable with this just yet. Conjecture on my end says this will be enforced by Monaco or the race after. I bet the issues they have to DRS in Monaco weigh heavily on this decision with teh blown diffuser cars as well.

 

OK I may be on the GK here but can this be in part due to what Charlie saw behind the curtain in the RB pits?

 

Perhaps a combination of that added with Chuck's constant head-scratching regarding the RB car design. I bet he finally figured out that RB's car is one giant diffuser which relied very heavily on their blown diffuser and crazy engine mapping, and he then decided the engine mapping to be a form or moveable aero. It can't have anything to do solely with RB as several teams are will be affected by this. I feel bad for Ferrari as they are probably seething with this setback.

 

So I'm not alone up here

 

Define "Throttle" in a fly-by-wire car.

Are they talking butterflies? Here come the creative "vacuum leaks" that only seem to occur off-throttle...

 

Ferrari nailed their own coffin when they decided to copy RB rather than do their own thing like Mclaren and MB and Renuault to an extent. Mclaren's only issue is they did indeed do their own thing, but it also relied a good bit on the EBD which they had big problem getting working right in testing, hence why they looked so terrible during testing.

 

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/05/the-real-story-behind-the-fias-exhaust-clampdown/

 

Not quite - just running air through the engine wouldn't give near the exhaust velocity needed to make the diffuser work, that does require combustion of fuel.

My understanding is that the engine mapping on off-throttle is to delay the injection of fuel and ignition timing so that the ignition and combustion events occur very late, making little power but still providing combustion gases on the way out the exhaust valve to energize the blown diffuser.

Red Bull and Renault started working with this concept on off-season between 2009 and 2010, and this was the secret to RB's qualifying advantage all last year. Teams noticed that the RB cars sounded different during qualifying than during practice and race, then reports surfaced that RB had a special engine mode that provided more exhaust flow off-throttle but could only be used for 1 or 2 laps continuously before overheating or damaging the engine. Remember last year how Ferrari and McLaren could be close in practice to RB, then in qualifying the RB cars were suddenly 0.5 seconds faster than everyone else? This was the reason. Initially, the engine map could only be used for a few laps before the engine overheated, but further development to control temps allowed the use of this mode in races as well.

So, Ferrari and McLaren and others all started working on the off-throttle exhaust velocity mode last year, and designed it into their cars this year. McLaren was sidetracked by the octopus exhaust, but with either the octopus or their Red Bull clone exhaust, it relies on the off-throttle exhaust velocity to be maintained by this engine mapping. Renault had an advantage because they worked with Red Bull on the engine mapping, so when the double diffusers were banned Renault was working on how to best use the exhaust and came up with the front exit. Red Bull refined their concept and in the absence of the double diffuser, came up with the side blown diffuser which allowed the greater rake.

Note that the FIA change will only affect off-throttle mapping, so reducing rear downforce when off-throttle. As mentioned by several above, this will mean a big change in driving style, where drivers will have to keep on-throttle for corner entry and even braking.

I could easily see different engine mapping where rather than allowing off-throttle exhaust velocity as now, they change the mapping on-throttle to be non-linear, where the first 10% - 40% would still be late injection and ignition to make little power but lots of exhaust flow, then from 41% + throttle they'd revert to the max torque/power mode. The drivers would just have to learn to stay in the 10% - 40% range when braking and corner entry and they'll still have the exhaust velocity to power the diffuser.

 

Fantastic post. Although that last part I bet they will not allow as I believe Whiting is seeing any of this changing in injection phasing combined with retarded ignition as a moveable aero device and it just won't fly. This could be why they are not enforcing this rule just yet as the complications with linear thorttle application are still being hashed out. The next technical meeting is mid-June and I bet they have it nailed down by then.

 

Great stuff, and one of the reasons I love F1.

 

and can be SO frustrated by it!

 

Ahh yes but then there would be no need for this section on the forum.

In an ideal F1 world, I wouldn't have the pleasure of hearing/reading you whine....

 

But then it wouldn't be ideal.
Tis a paradox

 

So Ferrari now have the worst of both worlds...
1) They were slower than Red Bull and Mclaren to begin with.
2) They get to be even slower and now probably end up behind MB and Renault too.
Alonso was quoted a week ago urging Ferrari to be more adventurous in their design. How can you be adventurous when the rules are so unclear and constantly up for interpretation. It has become a lousy sport with lousy rules. Lousy rules that keep changing for the worse.

 

Any chance that this engine mod caused the KERS issues?