Scud vs. 458: Prefer the Scud but didn't expect to. Advice?

I've said this many times before on other thread...I wish Ferrari would QUIT fattening up their cars! The Scud is more fun/engaging, in part, BECAUSE IT'S LIGHTER! Much lighter! It also doesn't have all the sound-proofing crap that the 458 has. I guess those who love raw, visceral sports cars will have to wait for the "Scud version" of the 458.

 

Light is good, but it depends what you want. A Lotus Elise is about as light as you can get. A shade over 1900 lbs so although it only has 134 hp, it is quick. But would you want one over a Ferrari?

 

I wish Ferrari would make a car like this, but with say 350 HP.

 

Base Elise = 2000 lbs 134HP [Elise SC = 2000 lbs 220HP]

Scud = 3000 lbs 500HP

[all weights and HP are rough estimates]

Well, they made one with 2.3X the HP and "only" 1.5 more weight (compared to Elise SC]

I don't see Ferrari making a car lighter than the CS or Scud anytime soon with today's technologies anyways...perhaps the 458 "Scud" will be 580HP and 3200 lbs? Will be interesting to see...

 

+1

 

In reality, neither DCT nor DSG 'skips' gears, but why is it annoying to you? You're not driving them properly. I don't like those trannies on a Ferrari myself, but here are the differences. The 458 has a DCT, which stands for 'dual clutch transmission'. You have gears 1,3,5 in one shaft/clutch, and 2,4,6 on the other. Shifting takes milliseconds, so even going down multiple gears is achieved in less than a second if you keep paddle depressed. The DSG (German initials) is an automated manual with a sequential shifter (like Ferrari's F1). I'm not that familiar with F1 (which uses the same Graziano 6-speed tranny as the manual), but it's possible it doesn't let the clutch out on each gear when doing multiple gear changes, but if that's the case (which would sound like it skipped gears), the system is still going quickly thru let's say, 6-5-4-3, with the clutch depressed, then releasing clutch in 3rd. On a manual, you could literally skip from 6th to 3rd, but automated systems have to go thru each gear, whether releasing clutch or not. And they do it quicker than us with a manual, I might add .

Having said that, you shouldn't drive an automated manual like that; it defeats the purpose. Quickest shifts are from one gear to the next (especially on DCTs, where the next gear, whether up or down, is in the other shaft/clutch). Just like on a motorcycle, you have to 'skip' thru all gears to downshift anyway (whether releasing clutch or not), so might as well do it one by one, and always keep the engine in an rpm range where it has some power. I'm pretty sure F1/DCT trannies downshift on their own at certain low rpm regardless of mode, to avoid 'hanging' on a gear, like it can happen on a motorcycle if left on 6th, then going down to 2nd or 1st at 15/20 mph without releasing the clutch. Hope this helped.

 

I think you may have missed the point. Everyone who drives a manual box misses gears during normal driving. Not in maximum attack when it is clearly quicker to go through the gears but in normal driving. Whether it's dropping from 5th to 3rd for a quick overtake and then once passed doing the reverse and doing 3rd to 5th or else simply slowing down for a junction and dropping 3 or 4 gears at a time. The F1 box allows the 5th to 3rd drop , does one exhaust blip to match the 2 gear rev increase and again once the overtake is complete does a 2 gear upshift - 2 quick taps on the paddle for both moves. I don't know the technicals of how this is achieved but the appearance is of missing gears and of one seamless downshift or upshift. I don't have experience of 458 shift but assume from the post that the driver does, his F1 allowed this and now the 458 doesn't. It's not a problem, just a difference and something he misses. Certainly not a case of not driving properly.

 

I vote Scud

 

I currently own (not just driven a CS, 430, and 458, tracked the CS extensively before and now track the 458.

CS has perfect looks, steering and sound. A bit to much body roll on the track and transmission is clunky on the street. Terrible street car but a properly thrilling Ferrari.

458 is fantastic on the track due to minimal body roll, greater acceleration and gearbox that sounds like a F1 car. But it is very boring on the street, like a plain Porsche.

430 (not Scud) has great sound and enough rawness over the 458 to make it fun for street use. I imagine the Scud is better than CS on track but too harsh for street use. To me the Scud is not good looking like the CS. Hard to love a car that does not look great.

I love the CS but only like the 458.

 

I totally disagree with the comments about the Scud but I guess that's what makes horse racing.

I think it is beautifully aggressive looking and very aesthetically pleasing.

Also as a matter of fact, I drive it in race mode with the firm suspension setting and do not find it too harsh for street use. With the setting on the gentler suspension mode it is even softer for those less tolerant.

Race seats are also extremely comfortable if the driver is not over weight and out of shape.

My 2 cents.

 

+1. This post makes a lot of sense to me and matches my somewhat limited experience in these cars...

The only addition I would make is that the CS and Scud are "okay" to drive on the street (IMHO) if they are your second or third option and thus utilized for specific/limited purposes.

But, its all relative...if comparing to a 911S or Audi R8 then one would say the CS and Scud are far less competent at being a DD on the street (some might even say "terrible" or "too harsh" for that role). I get that view...

But I also understand that some folks' love the rawness and don't mind it for DD and I'm somewhere in between and use the CS for limited trips here and there but mostly for special fun runs...

Anyways...thanks for posting your first-hand take on all three...I would LOVE to own all three...gonna have to get a much larger garage!

 

That's what I mean, the CS/Scud are too harsh for frequent street use particularly on bad surfaces, but tolerable for occasional runs. Perhaps the Scud is better for street than CS thanks to the better transmission. Like women, there is no perfect choice since each has its own good and bad. The solution is to have them all

 

Depends upon your roads and your personal preferences... I drive my CS all over... usually in Race mode because I prefer how it shifts and am willing to tolerate even more roughness for that... but if I get on a somewhat rougher road, I'll pop off Race mode to soften the ride a bit.

With that said, there are places that I've driven in other cars that I would NOT want to drive in the CS... for example, some of the roads in OK are annoyingly rough in an SUV, let alone the CS... and the one time I drove on a rock road in my CS was definitely painful. And you absolutely never want to hit a pothole in the CS... ouch!

On the flip side, there's a few highways in Dallas where the dirt moves a lot resulting in very wavy roads (smooth but long tall waves)... those can get an SUV bouncing (nauseating), whereas the CS just rides over those waves with no bouncing at all.

Sooooo, it just depends. But in general, it would be incorrect to flatly assert that a CS is too rough for the road. Its suspension is surprisingly compliant given how little it rolls and how well-connected it is to the road.

 

Yup. And, I also was trying to say that to evaluate a car as a DD, its not only suspension compliance that factors in. Its a bunch of other stuff...easy example for the CS is the low ride height. I tend to only take it places where I know first-hand the speed bump situation (good example, I had to pick up a friend at the airport and she asked me to do so in the CS. Sounds good I thought...but then I hadn't really paid attention to the speed bumps. So, I did a scouting run in the Maser the day before and confirmed that is was CS-safe).

Then there is the noise (beautiful of course, but not always appropriate) and the limited features, etc. That's why I LOVE the car but feel like I could only own it when in possession of other cars for other purposes (like going to Home Depot in the SUV, or Safewway to get groceries and on and on...).

 

The Scud is great if you are near a track. 458 perfect for regular roads.

 

Ahhh, good point! When I was arguing that the CS is a good daily driver, I certainly was NOT arguing it would be a good ONLY-driver... it doesn't do big speed bumps... it doesn't do gravel roads... it doesn't haul lots of people... I don't take it unless I have a pretty good feel about the roads and the parking situation.