Concur. Jury is still out on Vettel...not sure how he would do in a car not near the front. See MS right now...remember a year or two ago when everyone said he would be back in the mix for another championship? Uh, yeah, whatever. As a Barrichello fan I have always had a unbiased view on all of you guys rooting for the frontrunners, and right now I would say that my top 3 skilled drivers are: 1) Alonzo 2) Hamilton 3) Vettel Other than that it's just everyone else right now. Nico has done waxing MS's arse, but not completely about him either. MB
You realize that he won a GP with a backmarker team which never before and never since won? What other proof do you possibly need? Not even Alonso managed to win in that POS when he was driving for that team.
I'm not jumping on anyone, I'm pointing out history. It's also so hilarious to read all of you guys annoint the SAME THREE GUYS as the best. Yes, points over the last two seasons prove that out, but still, you take one of those guys and put him in a crap box he won't do so well, and you take a backmarker driver and put him on a top team and he doesn't do well, then what? When Massa got hurt, who replaced him, and how well did he do? See - you already forgot who it was. The excuses some of you come up with as to why somebody or a car does bad - or good - are just incredible. Ferrari - it's the driver, the chassis, the designer, the manager, the tires, the aero, KERS, DRS, the #2 driver, the pit stops, I've read it all, and it's a joke.
No offense Andreas, but there was a big difference between the Toro Rosso that Vettel won with and the Minardi that Alonso drove, not taking anything away from Vettel's excellent Pole and Win at Monza.
But some guys do really well in a 'non-high dollar car'. Derek Warwick did wonders in the Toleman in 1983. Some other guy we know did OK in 1984 in the Toleman. Stefan Johannson did OK in the Spirit in, what, 1985? Prost did ok with an 'ok' Renault, but he didn't do much until he got in a Mclaren. Arnoux crashed in Renaults, and he crashed in Ferraris. Berger did the same at ATS, Arrows, did great at Benetton, then went to Ferrari. (Wikipedia has a great pic of him in the Benetton - check it out) I know that dates me, but a lot of guys do well in back-half cars, and they raise eyebrows, they get noticed, the people doing the noticing know exactly what these guys are riding in, and they can generally spot talent ready to bloom.
I would agree with that. I think what separates Alonso is his composure under pressure. LH has shown that he can over-press in situations, and Vettel becomes a mess if he's battling from behind someone (some 'red mist' issues, for certain).
I still remember his drives being closely followed by MS...lap after lap after lap and never putting a foot wrong. It was very frustrating for the Ferrari fans, but Alonso showed his skill and determination.
Since you're a Boobens fan I sense a very large chip on your shoulder in reference to your MS comments
Roger that. Not saying he isn't good, just not as good as Alonso who is singlehandedly pulling Ferrari up by thier bootstraps. MB
No comparison, and at some point perhaps Vettel may even surpass Alonso, but in the RB 007 Alonso would be further ahead. Alonso has only had a car worthy of his talent for 2 years, 2005 and 2006 and look what he did with it. In addition, he should have won the 2007 Championship had Ron Dennis not had his head up his arse and treated Alonso with the respect that a current two time champion coming to the team deserved.
The other thing is, in 1984 when Senna was finishing quite a few races in the top-6 or 7, you also have to notice he did so, two laps down in most cases. Still, a top-6 is POINTS, which were HUGE back then. Not sure if they carry the same weight today that they did back then, travel-expense wise.
Yes there was, but that Toro Rosso was as good as the Spyker( Jordan). Alonso did amazing in the Minardi, but so did Vettel in the Toro Rosso.
A slight exaggeration, but an excellent point that the noob's don't recall......"The Ferrari's were *lapped*!" OMG! The end of the world is nigh! Fire 'em all! Back then, a tight race was (often) ~4-5 cars on the final lap - Each ~30secs apart..... +1 - Most teams didn't score squat! I'm not sure, but believe it's still "points = $$$" - The points go deeper nowadays, but you've still gotta get 'em.... Cheers, Ian
This. Nico is certainly not top tier, but 2nd tier in this field. When Michael was in his prime at Ferrari, Nico was at the waterboy level.
