Someone recently asked me what I thought was the 'best exhaust' for a 360 Modena. I responded with 'it really depends on what you want it for!'. I have had the following systems over the past few years and in the end I've settled on a Timate (as it fits my requirements perfectly); ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. Stock Modena / Spider Exhaust Material: Stainless Steel Weight: 31kg's Pro's: a) Able to attend uk track days without problems b) Doesn't annoy the locals c) Valves supported d) Since its a factory unit its fully legally approved e) As a used buy, cheap to replace (search ebay) Con's: a) Way too quiet and boring for my tastes b) suffers from white dust corrosion issues. c) pipes still go 'brown' rusty looking with use. d) don't try to buy a new one, very expensive new. e) strangles power vs race system ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2. Modena/Spider [Optional] Factory Race Exhaust Material: Stainless Steel Weight: 26kg's Pro's: a) Great sound, Its the same system as fitted to the Challenge Stradale. b) Still offered by main dealers as an upgrade. c) Valves supported d) Since its a factory unit its fully legally approved e) Improved weight over stock system. Con's: a) Not able to attend uk track days without problems (due to dB levels exceeding the allowed thresholds) b) Expensive to buy, rare as a used buy. Requires ecu reflash to run well. Even as a used buy, very expensive, difficult to source. c) Made from s/steel so still quite heavy. d) Pipes still go 'brown' rusty looking with use. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 3. Capristo Exhaust (saved about 4-5kg's over stock, so around 25kg's) Material: Stainless Steel Weight: 25-26kg's Pro's: a) Very nice sound, raspy and quite loud - not sure which step mine was. b) Looks nice and great quality / craftsmanship. c) Improved weight over stock system. d) TUV approved so road legal in Germany.e) Gains around 5-9hp. Con's: a) Mine sufffered from quite severe heat soak issues (which I eventually solved by fitting heat shield reflection to engine lid.) b) no valves although you can now get valved systems c) Pipes still go 'brown' rusty looking with use even though s/steel is used. d) High cost ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 4. Timate Exhaust Material: Ultra thin wall Titanium Weight: 7.7kg's (saving about 24kg's off the back of the car!!! ) Pro's: a) Aggressive Race spec sound, more f1 at high rpm than any other system. b) Stylish, always stays shiny, gets a blue-ish tint after heat cycled which looks very good! Doesn't ever rust or go brown. c) Superlight, entire system weights about the weight of just the factory tips! d) Very high power gain (I verified +27hp, +35ft. gain, when used with CS ignition maps and a battery reset) e) Due to small size can be removed/refitted without removing rear bumper. f) Price is very competitive for Titanium (look at the silly price of Alprovic systems. ) Con's: a) You have to import it yourself direct from Taiwan. No European importer. b) Probably a bit too OTT and loud for most people. c) No valves support (yet) d) Not TUV approved e) Difficult to nigh on impossible to get on a UK track day without being black flagged. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I've had pretty much them all, even tried out the tubi, not _personally_ to my tastes but many people absolutely love them. IMHO they sounds more like a muscle car sound does, very bassy, more 'trombone' alike compared to a high revv-ing Ferrari sound. This however is purely a taste thing and other than sonics its pretty similar to the Capristo. Finally a cheaper alternative to the Optional Race / CS exhaust is to modify a F430 exhaust system to fit a 360 Modena. This requires taking your old 360 pipes to someone who's competant at welding so you can get those 430 tips modified so they align up at the same exit point and angle. Do a search Scott has posted extensively about this system setup. I can confirm it does indeed sound exactly like a CS system (probably because the CS / Race system) share the same backbox.
Depends on what the tuner cloned across. The pair of ME7.x Bosch Ignition ECU's (1 per bank of 4 cylinders) from the 360 and CS are identical in every way other than the firmware (software) and ofcourse the 'air/fuel maps.' You can indeed 'bench flash' the entire firmware so that both the software logic and the data maps used are identical, thereby 'cloning' the ecu completely. This can cause issues with missing sensors however because extra sensors where checked for such as ones used for fuel pressure sensing which may not be present on earlier cars. Just adding the maps will increase the power but not implement every single change that Bosch engineers programmed into the original cs software. Improvements that no doubt spanned several years and iterations. It also depends on exactly 'what maps' where transferred over during the upgrade. Only the tuner will know. If they just copied over the 'fuel maps' then its also missing the valve overlap timing (the variator timing was changed for more power on the CS) and also the throttle sensitivity maps too and countless others. On the decoupling of the shocks did you isolate PIN 9 from the Suspension ecu (BROWN-WHITE) as when I traced back it directly comes from the Race mode On/Off switch on the central console (CS). If CS onwers cut this wire and put in a simple in-line switch does this do the seperation of HARD/SOFT suspension from other Race Mode features. I.e. Is this enough to trick the Suspension ECU into seperating the soft mode yet you'd still be in race mode for the other computers, i.e. the TCU still fastest shift mode and the ASR backed off? CS Suspension ECU Pin Description Signal Wire Colour 01 Front Vertical Acceleration Sensor.............< Analogue input (Grey Blue) 02 Transverse Acceleration Sensor.................< Analogue input (Blue Green) 03 Unused Pin....................................-- Not Used 04 K-diagnosis line..............................<> Comms K line (Grey Red) 05 Brake pedal switch.............................< Digital input (Red) 06 Power supply for acceleration sensors..........> Power output (Grey) 07 Power supply for acceleration sensors..........> Power output (Green) 08 ECU power supply +15 (key).....................< Power input (Yellow) **09 RACE mode switch...............................< Digital input (Brown White) 10 Frnt LH shock absorber solenoid valve..........< Electric input (Pink Red) 11 Frnt RH shock absorber solenoid valve..........< Electric input (White Pink) 12 Rear LH shock absorber solenoid valve..........< Electric input (Grey Black) 13 Rear RH shock absorber solenoid valve..........< Electric input (Yellow Black) 14 Rear Vertical Acceleration Signal..............< Analogue input (Grey White) 15 RACE mode signal...............................> Digital output (White Orange) 16 Error signal...................................> Digital output (Green Yellow) 17 Vehicle Speed Signal...........................< Freq input (White Yellow) 18 Power supply for Front acceleration sensors....> Power output (Grey) 19 Power supply for Front acceleration sensors....> Power output (Orange) 20 ECU Power supply...............................< Power input (Black) 21 Power supply for solenoid valves ctrl +15(key).< Power input (Yellow) 22 Frnt LH shock absorber solenoid valve..........> PWM output (Grey Red) 23 Frnt RH shock absorber solenoid valve..........> PWM output (White Blue) 24 Rear LH shock absorber solenoid valve..........> PWM output (Black Green) 25 Rear RH shock absorber solenoid valve..........> PWM output (Blue Black)
Trev Any idea who can provide the full set of maps over here to do the reflash, I know Jay off clubCS definatly has some of the software ? Obviously Ferrari wont want to do it. Something im keen to get done soonish on my car. Again might have to call upon your fountain of expert knowledge in the next week or two as about to tackle the CS centre console install on my car, which will involve alot of rewiring. While im messing around I could try to put an inline switch for the suspension setting in Sport/Race as part of my modification and test if it works, this will be a quick and easy test but will just need to cross reference with you as the cable harness is different on the Modena.
Interesting about the suspension! I heard something similar to that as well.. but since i am no expert i cant say yes it is. As for exhausts: you say 430 exhaust works, (and Scott? is that his screen name) I have seen it on a youtube video i think of his. But my question is if it works, then the Scud exhaust should work too! Dont get me wrong I love all the exhausts out there.. but my personal fave is the one where it comes straight out the back. And when you have the tow hook, it looks like a face
Hi Kouki Monster Trev is referring to me (scott), I previously did a 430 exhaust mod to get it to fit on my 360. Did a quick vid of the sound ....nearly blew the camera away lol ! [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQdhX1dzRG0[/ame]
Scott, haven't seen that vid before, I laughed out loud when I saw the camera moving Have some good news for you too, I managed to get the rest of those mounting brackets from that guy for your CS dash. When I bought a few other bits from him I asked him if he still had them. He 'sold' me them for £5 I don't quite know who else he was going to sell them to, lol. That should help fitting anyhow!!!
As promised the other day .... heres a couple of pics of the blue engine pipe I picked up from maranellos. Part number in the pic. Price was £68 all in. Hopefully from the pics you can see if its the same and will fit your car. Ive not fitted it to my 03 car but looks identical Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hey Scott, Most of the wiring involves adding extensions to and from the center console to the original switch placement of the CS. The console mounted START switch is a simple by-pass of one of the ignition switch leads through a relay, so as not to to inadvertently engage the Starter. A bit more work on the Spider 6 Speed Manual Vs an F1 Transmission Coupe ... but fairly simple. I've molded a plain center console with the correct height for a manual, which I am modifying to meet my use ( see attached ). In lieu of CF, I am considering covering it in Leather or Alcantara with red stitching. Not sure if you are using a CS type console, if not, I will have AutoCad - DXF files of switch placement if interested. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
It is all part of the standard Exhaust Gas Recycling system. The difference here is that is been Anodised a nice 'blue' coloring for the (EGR) Vent Pipe back from the heads. The standard pipe is boring painted matt black. The emissions of spent gases are vented from the heads back into the oil disarator and then another pipe connects them via a pair of connections to the Throttle Bodies to allow upto 5% of the spent gases to be 'breathed' back in to the air intake system (eat your own sh*t style) - this helps to reduce emissions of various noxious gases. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGR The system is not without its flaws. Under some operating conditions when the engine is running hot and has been overfilled oil can travel back up the pipes (in a vacuum ) and flood the top of the air intakes with oil - resulting in pools of oil in the top of the red air intake covers.
It is called PCV system (POSITIVE CRANKCASE VENTILATIONJ SYSTEM) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_ventilation_system
It serves other puposes too, its also an oil swirl pot collector too. I discovered after discussing this with the Challenge car modders that the easy way to bypass EGR it is to just block the holes entering the throttle bodies themselves. This increases throttle response and improves horsepower, adding some extra bhp in mid range (particularly torque) when seen on the dyno (don't have exact figures but will find out at next dyno session).
Ditto. It is actually serving both functions, a PCV and EGR. I noticed 2 things when I disabled the EGR, (nothing to do with the blue pipe which needs to be retained for the PCV function btw) 1.) Drastically Reduced engine temperatures. 2.) Improved Midrage torque and power.
trev, not wanting to get into a huge dialogue on ECUs but while software/firmware can be exactly the same, this does not imply that parameters contained within the software need be. to over simplify, the same software could for example allow a max throttle opening at 45deg in one case and 80deg in the another or indeed the same closed and open values in each but a linear and a log curve between these min/max points. same software but very different control. whether cloning would catch every bit of info will depend on whether theres additional chips holding info that cannot be accessed once in the unit. i doubt that this is the case though, motronic 7 is a standard platform that manufacturers then set info into depending on their needs. every car using the same version will have the same software regardless of manufacturer, the devil is in the detail. same goes for the ABS/ASR ecus used in the modena and CS. exact same software, different control outputs. same again for the suspension ECUs used in each. exact same software but setup with different values. the Bosch Motorsport ECUs in my Porsche racecars can work with 4-6cyl, electronic and cable throttles, ASR inputs and outputs, throttle blips, full throttle shifts etc etc and with a huge variety of sensors and senders. everything can be customised as to how it operatates, how it measures and indeed whether features are even active or not. all with the same software. not one of these factors relates to the timing or air/fuel mixture so theres a huge amount of control variability before you even look at the actual mapping. the laptop software we use for the race cars has pages and pages of things we can change within the ECU just as people running the same ECU and software in BMW etc can. it took the ferrari factory almost 4 months to get me engine ECUs when they did the work on my car. everything else was finished and i drove (with CS maps) during this time. they categorically stated that much would change when it was finished, and it did. the car has a ton more snap with than without. ymmv of course. ref the decoupling. lifting pin 9 does not work. i tried this as a DIY almost as soon as i had my car. depending on how you insert the switch you can have this second switch turn the whole sport/race mode on or off without any input from the original button, or have the toggle disable and enable the entire mode once the main switch it set. regardless it does not allow the suspension to work as an independent system. ill dig out my drawings and get the info for you when i get home. im away until 15th of this month.
Neil, once again, thanks for taking the time to explain. As you stated, Monotronic ME7.1 is a standard off the shelf unit and can be fully reflashed both the data segments (by manufacturers with checksums) or the complete flash chip itself (again with checksums). The ECU itself has code written using a Siemens C16x CPU and this can even be fully reverse engineered back into assembly code to trace activation of OBD-II fault codes and fully understand every element of how the ecu works if you have the time and the inclination. (IDA Pro supports it). There are well known tools which can also re-calculate the checksums for you if you change any data values. See the associated picture, the flash chip itself is 512kbytes and like I said you can completely 'bench flash' it to a whole new set of firmware logic + data maps. (The data maps are contained within the firmware). address, description 0x87FFFF - top of memory 0x820000 - cal table end 0x810000 - cal table start 0x800000 - bottom of memory This can be used to convert a ecu destined for one car into one that works on a completely different engine. Just changing the maps alone doesn't do this. In addition to this there is a further 32kbytes of BOOT ROM from 0x000000 to 0x00E0000. So, if you do a full flash dump of the entire 512kbytes you get the programmed logic and complete data segments dumped, i.e from 0x800000 to 0x87ffff (with all the parameters you where describing!). With software called 'WinOLS' you can actually see all the data segments and alter their values too. The final consideration is you have to do this for each ecu (1 per bank) hence easier to do via bench flashing. Great sources of information exist on the web (such as); http://www.andywhittaker.com/en-gb/ecu/boschmotronicme71.aspx Image Unavailable, Please Login
While I am going for as super light weight as possible ultimately I am still using the car predominately on the road so I want the interior to be as nice looking as possible. Something you don't really care so much about on a pure racing car. Nobody can doubt my resolve in these matters having shedded kilo's wherever I possibly could HOWEVER I've always loved the look of the 16M ever since I saw one at a local dealership. What struck me was how 'nicely' finished off the interior was. As such I've been experimenting with fittig a pair of "16M style" fully trimmed inner sills in full Alcantara on my car. Overall I think they look quite good and yet only weigh in at a barely believabley 186 grammes per side! The pair of sill fully trimmed in this wonder fabric weight about the same of that stupid block of wood I found in the door and removed but in this case I think they are an ever so slightly better use of the grammes Check out the first pics... Opinions? Waste of weight or worthy edition? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
gets the thumbs up from me mate, prototype design sure looked great when I was over at yours. now ....... lets talk about those scud mats, me wants some !!!
Thanks Scott, PS. Ordered that Blue pipe from your recommended place, cost around £83 all in since the prices have gone up since last week, lol. Typical. Still I like the look and I now know it will fit...
