Red Bull

What record?

Cheers,
Ian

 

4 WDC

IIRC he is the only one with that number. Then it is 5 Fangio and 7 MS.

 

If the car is right I believe he certainly could.

 

+1 What he said! If Alonso weren't blocked by Petrov last season, Vettel may not have been champion...Alonso was that close. This year, Red Bull Racing has dominated the speed potential because of the engineering (not the driver). Having the fastest car which puts you out in front of the others isn't related to skillful driving. It's just Winning. Interestingly, Webber's car has mechanical trouble almost every race- for whatever reason.

 

Vettel is a fantastic driver and so is Alonso, Hamilton and a few others and any one of today's great top F-1 drivers in the RB would be this years world champion.

 

+1 agreed!

 

+1. Perfect statement.

Yes Seb is good but he is being made to look like a God in the RB. We've seen MS look like this and yes MS was good but nobody is that much better than the rest of the drivers, nobody.

Even Senna, Prost, Lauda, Stewart, Clark, Fangio, Nuvolari used to get pushed every now and then when the other driver had a great day or their car just clicked or something. What we are presently seeing is a very confident driver in a extremely good car ... thus he is walking away with all races (except one).

If Webber was as confident he would be as fast, but Webber is too hard on himself to ever be that confident ...
Pete

 

I was surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but this is remarkably similar to '92 Williams with Mansell. Mansell won 9 races, was second place in 3 races, and retired for some reason or other a few races. That's the level of domination we are seeing. Yes, Mansell was very good but he was no Senna, Prost,or Schumacher of the day. Patrese driving the other Williams and scored second place in nearly all the races Mansell won. Dominance by means of car not necessarily driver

 

Nonsense. Even if Alonso had passed Petrov he would never have caught Vettel. He was too far away.

I'm a big Alonso fan btw but let's stay realistic here.

 

Mansell was a super talent. His career was a bit like Kimi's: when he was really good, the car broke down. The WDC he eventually won, could have been won by many other driver as his car was so superior but he deserved a WDC as payback for all the years he lost because of a car

Vettel OTOH has won races in back and midfield cars and is just at the beginning of a most amazing career we have the privilege of witnessing

 

ummm....it seems ages ago already, but I don't think Alonso had to beat Vettel to win the championship, did he?

 

i had a suspicion you were messing with my head!

 

The bull is very cleverly engineered. The biggest advantage it has is the aero efficiency. That is why they're only catchable at high downforce street circuits.

 

So True. Unfortunately each track has a limited number of DRS zones which are only allowed to be used under certain circumstances, so that downforce isn't always allowed when needed. Red Bull really has quite an advanced ride.

 

I don't buy it yet and I don't realy see any difference to Mansell's WDC with Williams. Vettel has been very good but more a product of circumstance. Hulkenberg and Nico are every bit as good. Gosh, what's with German drivers lately. They are all just great.


And Regarding Alonso's WDC chances last year, remember he did not need to catch up to Vettel. All he had to do was finish in front of Petrov and he would have had enough points. Vettel did not deserve it last year because he acted like a impatient punk kid half the season and Webber regularly out-drove him. This year is different of course, but last year I would have pleased with Webber or Alonso winning the WDC

 

Appears DC addresses this issue as well -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/8601591/European-Grand-Prix-2011-rankings-game-is-pointless-Sebastian-Vettel-is-simply-very-good.html

 

from that article:

The allegation traditionally made against Seb is that he can only lead from the front; that if he was fighting from fourth or fifth like Lewis then he, too, would be struggling.

Again, we just don’t know. Seb has the fastest car, he is putting it on pole, and he is winning. What more can he do? Only time will tell if he also has these ‘racing’ attributes.






The above is exactly what I'm talking about. We just don't have any idea and personally I see him as too much of a perfectionist to have it in him to scramble like Lewis, Fred, Webber or even Schu can. In the race of champions he had his tail handed to him by Michael. I know we can't really judge by that, but I'm just sayin he's not the fastest thing on 4 wheels, and the minute he has a sub-optimal car we will know more. The difference with Michael was that he had the ability to build and communicate with the team and constantly have a great car. Whether Seb has it in him or not is unknown but I'm sure we will find out.

 

Thing is, Seb has yet to convince most people if he can win from starting in fifth or tenth place. I mean, I can't even recall when was the last he pulled an awesome overtaking maneuver.

So yes, he might be perfect, but only when the car and the situation is perfect.

 

Based on that race Kovalainen is the next WDC in the making.

Now I'm confused. Which is it?

 

Not true:

Vettel had 231 points going into Abu Dhabi, Alonso had 246.

This is the finishing order:
1 Vettel
2 Hamilton
3 Button
4 Rosberg
5 Kubica
6 Petrov
7 Alonso

- Had Alonso managed to pass Petrov, he would have still ended up 2 points short of Vettel.
- Had Alonso managed to also pass Kubica, he would have tied in points with Vettel. They would have also been tied in victories, in 2nd places and in 3rd places. But Vettel would have had 1 more 4th place and won the title.

=> Alonso could only win the title (assuming Vettel wins the race) if he also had passed Rosberg, who was 14 seconds ahead of him. Passing or not passing Petrov in the end made no difference.

 

Which is why I said it really doesn't matter. You're very right though. That being said, Kobalainen could be a fantastic driver stuck in a really crappy car too.

You da man thanks for clearing that up. I was slightly mistaken there sir. IIRC, Alonso qualified really well (exactly where Montezemolo wanted him) and got stuck behind Petrov at completely the wrong time and was stuck behind him......forever. Alonso could and should have won that WDCC as that was quite possibly his worst race of the year.

 

Dont know how many times I have to say it, but Vettel is great and he is only 23 years old. He is just going to get faster. Alonso is turning 30 this year, so he better make something happen in the next few years. Also wasn't the Toro Rosso a POS! Isn't the Toro Rosso team suppost to be a support team to Redbull to develop up coming drivers? In 2008 was Toro Rosso best season ever scoring more points than Redbull. Before and after Vettel the team sucked and still does today.

 

So what you are saying is you like Vettel right??

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

sure, vettel is a great driver. Somewhat better than the majority of F1 drivers. But that's not why RBR is dominating this season.

I remember Hakkinens first WDC. Or rather, I remember the very first race of the season. The McLarens were so much faster than the rest of the field it was ridiculous.

I also remember when MS started driving for Ferrari. He had no chance at the start of the season but after a while they were pretty competitive, if memory serves me right.

Engineering has always been a huge reason why a specific team has been winning. A decade ago, if you didn't have a winning car at the start of the season, extensive testing could get you there, meaning the driver was extremely important. Now, it's mostly down to the engineers and the rest of the R&D knowing what they're doing all the way through the season. Or so it seems, imho.