[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG-4sSoXlaM[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbKLCw6XVrw&feature=related[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDWA_4wpobc&feature=related[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BplWPco6REg&feature=related[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEPatDpT_ek&feature=related[/ame] < The Megatron is a BMW engine sold to teams, Listen to it at idle 4 min. in and it sounds like an untuned SKODA....
The same exact thing THIS is supposed to mean: It's called 'trading barbs'. Flip me uncalled for **** and I'll flip some back, that's all.
I don't understand the folks that diss certain things to the point of making fun of it, that's all. I don't particularly like these ear-splitting high-revving motors, but I won't diss them because that is what the rules have basically mandated. I watch it, it doesn't mean I like it, I tolerate it. A lot of folks here downright HATE the slower cars, they would be really happy if the slowest 3-4 TEAMS packed up and quit, but these same guys that call for that simply do not understand the evolution of racing. ALL teams started at the back.
Easy killer...it's just that I'm so tired of people attempting to make comparisons with these proposed motors and the fire breathing monsters like the bimmers from the 80s in an attempt to validate why this is a good move. You and I both know that these engines will be restricted within an inch of their lives and not make half the power of those in the good ole days. Turbo and engine management technology has come too far for the FIA to allow these future engines to have any technical freedoms. Right now we have rev limits...bad enough right? With these we will probably (and I know I'm speculating here) rev, boost, and fuel flow restrictions. Also, I know it's debatable, but there's no way the new engines will sound as good. Whether you agree or not, a high revving scream has been a hallmark of f1 for decades. You're right, I have never been to a turbo f1 race but I did go to champ car back in the day and the f1 sound make them sound like grandmas Buick in comparison...and they were even turbo v8s.
Difference is my comment wasn't a personal insult or even referring to you in particular but you can't deny that whenever a engine thread comes up some gray hair comes along and has to tell us about the BMW 4 banger from the 80s like we've never heard about it as if that sure evidence that the new motors will be great. It's old hat at this point...
This whole "Green"/Politically correct thing in all aspects of life is ridiculous. Why don't they limit the distance teams can travel to a race, the number of transporters, one car instead of two per team? It's just insane. Just give in and make them all electric and stick a fork in F1 already. Then the FIA want to do cost cutting measures and change the rules from year to year and in some cases in the middle of the year costing the teams millions. There. I feel better now.
Absolutely. Besides the green BS what ever happened to F1 trying to save money? This is going to cost everyone a bundle and when the dust settles the same teams will still be on top.
How long are the new engines supposed to stay, if they last say 5+yrs maybe some of the initial cost can be recouped?
+1 I understand the need for "standardization" today, but well remember the Matra (now *there's* a noise you don't hear today!), Ferrari 12's, DFV's (still a truly great sound IMHO, particularly on the overrun), V10's and the turbo's - They all sounded awesome to me. As Is noted recently, as long as they remain the fastest things round a track, I'll stick with 'em. Cheers, Ian
With this huge change looming and with underbudget teams already struggling I would not mind seeing two different championships again aka the Jim Clark Cup. These underbudgetted teams could carry on with the current V8 and use the money saved for chassis developement, just a thought but that was the initial idea behind the concept in the first place.
My guess is rather that Cosworth will build a new 1.6l Turbo engine, which then will be sold to the small teams. Shouldn't be so hard to do.
I was just thinking about options that could be implemented so we can keep the current new teams who have invested so much as it would help them in the long run I think and show their efforts are/were not fruitless. Oh yes I'm certain Cosworth could build a fanatstic turbo engine (as we know from their history) and that would be very exciting for me.
Right. Cosworth said they will be involved in F1 no matter the engine formula. I'm waiting to hear if we will get 15k rpm engines and what the specifics will be regarding bore x stroke, allowable boost levels, and number of turbochargers allowed. Once we know those figures we will be able to deduce some bhp figures with reasonable certainty. If they allow two turbos, 15k rpm, and a couple bar of boost then they can see 1k bhp+.
I'm sure the FIA wants to play it safe, so 1k bhp+ is probably off the table. I'm guessing 700 to 800 hp tops, which will probably reduce it to one turbo. Also reliability will be key, so boost and rpms are probably rather modest. Again I'm guessing 12k.
Defining 'single turbo' is going to be a slipperly slope. Turbo technology is all over the place in terms of number of turning veins, wastegates, and their varying complexities between the two. Should be a good age for turbo technology.
A tt setup with say GT35 or twin Garrett T63's dual bb setup could possibly be the best bet as we are basically looking at two seperate engines functioning as one. I'm certain we are all aware of the weight saving materials used on turbo's for atleast the past decade (mainly compressor/turbine housing material) and plumbing material has also taken a huge step forward. I'm getting excited!!!
Turbo placement should be an interesting one as well. Will it be in between the engine 'V' for best central weight distribution and super-tight sidepod arrangement, or will they go with as low as possible placement on the sides of the manifolds possibly with the wastegate blowing the beam wing and the periscope exhaust exit itself blowing another area. Lots and lots of possibilities here.
Just my opinion but I think the "between the V" design ran it's course with Ferrari as they soon reverted to the side exhuast/turbo application not long after. IMO the 'inside V' design is too top heavy but in it's time was a "thinking outside the box" idea which was great. Guess we will just have to wait and see?
Some news: 15k rpm limit appears to be approved. There is also a fuel flow control for efficiency, which likely means boost will not really have a limit because fuel flow will inadvertently dictate the boost limit. Most boost=more fuel, and a team can only boost up to the amount of fuel they are regulated to stuff in a cylinder. Here are the specs: Combustion engine specifications: - 1600cc, V6 - 15000 rpm max - Direct fuel injection up to 500bar - Single turbocharger - Controlled fuel flow Energy recovery and storage systems specifications: - Kinetic, 120kW on the rear wheels - Exhaust energy recovery linked to the turbocharger Single turbocharger as I said before is going to need some serious definition. We are going to see some very very interesting exhaust manifolds. I am wondering if they will run the turbo on 4 exhaust pipes and allow two to vent directly with the turbo exhaust pipe adjoining those units. This would make for a better 'blown' wing type system due to a more constant exhaust flow. Exciting stuff. Up to 500bar direct style fuel injection will see some serious power. Expect very big numbers.
IMO the inclusion of a fuel flow standard, which many have called for all along, will be the most important part of the standard.
More cylinders = greater volmetric efficiency. 6 over 4 any day. This is how, with equal displacement more cylinders = greater power. The reason all cars are not 12 cylinders is manufacturing complexity, cost. Turbo, or forced induction will win over N/A. Can't wait for 2014
