Engine block detailing | FerrariChat

Engine block detailing

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by JohnMH, Jun 22, 2011.

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  1. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,848
    Bologna
    Whenever I see threads on this site which show a professional engine rebuild the block looks perfect, as if it just came from the foundry (if not better). On my project car the bare block has been scrubbed with simple green, coated in diluted muratic acid and rinsed with hot water about 3-4 times and while it is clean, it does not look like one of those pristine engine blocks.

    Is there a dipping process I am missing? Is there a silver alloy shade of paint which is being used?

    As well, on many cars I see a tan coating which is applied to the inside of the block (I assume to help fight porosity). What is that stuff and where can I get some?

    Regards to all.
     
  2. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,742
    A lot of engine builders have a machine that operates like a great big dishwasher, sparying hot soapy water (or solvent) from rotating nozzles in a bunch of directions. The heat softens the greases and crud, the hot soapy water from all directions loostens up the random crap. None of this takes of any paint overspray that got to the pristein block.
     
  3. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    The paint applied to the inside is somewhat "old school" to promote oil flow. It can have the rather nasty tendency to flake off and cause it's own problems. Forget it.

    It is not uncommon to paint the outside of an engine during a rebuild. There are numerous products that mimic the appearance of the original surface.
     
  4. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,848
    Bologna
    Thanks. The old baked on oil and grease is gone, there seems to to be something like rust stains on the alloy which will not come off. Though the block is clean, the discolouration will keep it from looking as good as it might otherwise. Most Ferrari blocks that I have seen have very finely finished casting surfaces, when I cleaned up the top of the engine in my Testarossa it looked great with a minimal amount of effort. The block I am trying to clean now is an old Lamborghini block, the finished surfaces on the casting are just like course sand which makes it hard to clean.

    Any suggestions on a paint? Eastwood vs. Wurth? Does the stuff come off over time, leaving the block looking even worse in a few years?
     
  5. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
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    Alumablast gives a very natural finish/sheen to aluminum castings.
     
  6. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Lamborghini castings tend to have a rather reddish mottled appearance. You can improve the look a lot with some paint. It will likely need a re-do in a few years but generally it will probably still look pretty good.
     
  7. Dailuracer

    Dailuracer Rookie

    Jun 24, 2010
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    #7 Dailuracer, Jun 23, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2011
    The 'great big dishwasher' is called a 'Jet Wash' and will get most of the dirt, grease & oil off
    aluminum parts (you can't 'Hot Tank' aluminum) and which mist machine shops have. To get the aluminum back to looking new you have to 'Soda Blast' them after the Jet Wash cleaning. A soda blaster is like a sand blaster or class beader but uses SODA so removes a very thin surface oxidization build up without removing the aluminum itself. DON'T......DON'T sand blast or glass bead your block or heads.
    Soda is water soluble so will not do any harm to the internal parts of your engine, head or oil passages.
    Check with some of the better known Ferrari or performance engine machine shops in your area....it is well worth the small cost (about $125 hour) in relation to the time & effort you put into a restoration or rebuild.

    'Sand' or 'glass bead' around or in an engine is a Death Wish....don't use it.
     
  8. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
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    'Sand' or 'glass bead' around or in an engine is a Death Wish....don't use it


    +1000
     
  9. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2002
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    lets see some pics?
     
  10. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
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    #10 JohnMH, Jun 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hmmm. No pics of the engine on this computer, but here is one from about 3 years ago when I started taking the car apart (ok, there is a tiny bit of the engine showing).
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  11. 3magic

    3magic Rookie

    Jun 3, 2011
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    Alumablast gives a very natural finish/sheen to aluminum castings.
     
  12. duck.co.za

    duck.co.za Formula 3

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    #12 duck.co.za, Jul 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. saw1998

    saw1998 F1 Veteran

    Jun 8, 2008
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    Absolutely beautiful.
     
  14. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
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    added content of silicon in the alluminum alloy used at the foundry(there are additional matallic compounds which exceeed the scope of tbhis thread....)....

    I have a machine shop...there ids a limit to how "pretty" a used casting can be made to look as far as appearances go....especially one subjected to normal environmental factors associated with...normal operatiung temps and environmnjets...

    alluminum is a salt...as such, iron/ferrite deposits will "leech" into the slat like cystalline lattice structore of ther saalt....and as such, cannot ever be removed from view via a physical surface "scrubbing" whether by a mexchanical scrubbing, or a surface etcing via a chem ical one...only a sealed surface and paint-as was used when originally manufactured-will provide you with the desired effect...

    the internbal paint has nothing , zero, bupkus, to do with oil dripping/wicking issues...it is solely an issue of internal sealing to prevent oil from wicking through insanely porous castings...
    ciao
     
  15. duck.co.za

    duck.co.za Formula 3

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    #15 duck.co.za, Jul 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Not sure I quite follow you ?
    Here's a before and after . The block you see in the first pic is the same one in the second ???
    Last pic is the one I was looking for earlier , believe me it did not look like that before I started ??
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  16. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #16 PAP 348, Jul 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    My friend works on motorbikes. He is very good at fixing them.

    We talked about HOW THE **** do you clean alloy to make it look nice and new. We were working on another mates 911 at the time.

    He told me of this product, Chemtech Blitz aluminium cleaner. He had some at home and went and got the bottle to show us.

    Man o man that stuff is GREAT! :D:D

    He put a drop of it onto a screw driver and dabbed it onto my friends plenum. I circled it in the the pic. That is a crap camera phone pic, but you can see the difference. The clean section looks like new in person. My friend cant wait to do the job properly.

    You spray on, leave for 5-10 mins then hose off. It doesnt damage paint, rubber, wiring etc..etc. Works like magic.

    He just dabbed that on and wiped it off with a moist rag. To do it properly, you spray on and brush in lightly. Leave for 5-10 mins then hose off with water.

    All alloy/plated and stainless parts will look like new he said. :eek:

    You can see how well it works in the pic. He also dabbed some on a REALLY REALLY dirty aluminium ladder there and it came up like new. Unbelievable!! I was very very impressed. I didnt take pics of the ladder, but wow! :D:D

    When I pull my engine, I will spray this stuff on and clean my plenum. I was going to remove and repaint, but my mate said dont be silly. Chemtech will make it look like new. He said to get best results, maybe do it twice. Spray on, lightly brush it on and hose off. So simple.

    You can even water it down with water to dilute the mix he said. Whatever etc.etc.

    http://www.chemtech.net.au/BLITZ%20JUNE%202010%20Features%20&%20Benefits.pdf
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  17. alberto

    alberto Formula 3

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  18. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    I dont know mate, hopefully someone knows of a distributor in the US.

    If not, I will investigate if it's possible to send you a bottle from here myself.

    All of Chemtech's products are quality products. We use a lot of their stuff.
     
  19. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
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    Dave, what abrasive material are you using with your wetblaster?

    Does your wetblaster combine a suction hose for the abrasive plus a carbide head with a high pressure washer setup? Or is it a more specialised setup?
     
  20. duck.co.za

    duck.co.za Formula 3

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    #20 duck.co.za, Jul 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It's effectively a sandblaster with water in it ??? What the water does is cushion the blast of abrasive against the surface , in so doing insead of abrading the the surface it's more like peening it ???
    I use the finest glass I can find . The wetblaster allows you to controle the amount of abrasive and obviously the air pressure ?
    There was a guy " Gleggy " I think , from Australia who had had some awesome wetblasting done by someone there . I think I still have some of his pic's
    Not the pic I was looking for , but it gives you an idea of how good you can get it
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  21. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Gleggy is the man and still posts in the Aussie section. :):)
     
  22. alberto

    alberto Formula 3

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  23. duck.co.za

    duck.co.za Formula 3

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    My machine is called an Aquablast
     
  24. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #24 smg2, Jul 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's an example of before and after that's too hard to believe without pics. soda blasting and lots of soaking in solvent. glass would clean it further but then the job of cleaning out the glass isn't worth the effort.

    an earlier post highlighted the issue of cast aluminum, it porous by nature due to its molecular structure and lattice bonds, addition or amalgamation of other metals for specific properties also has an effect where the free electron attracts other elements that come into contact with it, hence staining through the casting. no amount of chemical or mechanical cleaning will ever get it back to it's virgin cast state, not possible. the oxide layer formed by aluminum when exposed after cleaning helps to some degree but when it occurs in the presence of other elements like in a hot tank that's where you can get more staining.

    acid etching isn't a good idea as dangerous deadly gasses are released in the process that can get out of control quickly.

    If the porosity is high enough the oil will seep right through and that's why you'll find older castings painted on the inside, it's not std paint.
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  25. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #25 smg2, Jul 2, 2011
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