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BB going back together

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Newman, Jul 24, 2011.

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  1. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #1 Newman, Jul 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Reassembling the engine and gearbox on a carbed boxer at my place. Both units were in need of serious attention. I chose to machine the liners in the block with a headgasket and a torque plate rather than in a fixture outside of the block. Ill be putting the liners back in this week and ill recheck the piston to wall clearance as well as out of round with them under the load of the torque plate just to point out the change in dimension from the liner just sitting on the bench.

    Had 2 sets of 10.5:1 JE pistons made for both the carbed and injected boxer, stock ratio is advertised at 9.2:1, actual measured ratio on both was 8.75:1! After several measurements and calculations and a few tricks, the JE pistons are really 10.5:1 without an extreme dome.

    Heres a few shots.
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  2. Melvok

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    #2 Melvok, Jul 24, 2011
    Thanx for posting; very informative Newman !
     
  3. Hawkeye

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    #3 Hawkeye, Jul 24, 2011
    +1 Great pics, Newman. Keep us posted on the progress, nice work.
     
  4. Ferraripilot

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    #4 Ferraripilot, Jul 24, 2011
    Very handsome stuff there Paul.
     
  5. buzzm2005

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    #5 buzzm2005, Jul 24, 2011
    I LIKE that last pic. Has an eerie alien insect look to it.
     
  6. samsaprunoff

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    #6 samsaprunoff, Jul 25, 2011
    Good day Paul,

    All I can say is "Sah-weet" :) !

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  7. willrace

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    #7 willrace, Jul 25, 2011
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  8. JTR

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    #8 JTR, Jul 25, 2011
    Good pictures and interesting!
    I like those new pistons, and they should improve the HP by a decent amount. What effect do you think the increased compression would have on a car like mine that has to undergo California smog testing? I'm not sure that more compression, more gas, more HP equates to more smog, but I'm not sure it doesn't either..... Any thoughts?

    hey, when you get to slapping in the new ring gear carrier, go slow,,, with lots of pictures, and maybe a dial indicator setup or two! :D
    John
     
  9. Ferraripilot

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    #9 Ferraripilot, Jul 25, 2011
    How much are you poking that piston out of the cylinder?
     
  10. Newman

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    #10 Newman, Jul 25, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
    NOX may increase due to heat but HC should go down with an improvement in efficiency. These pistons have much less quench area which reduces unburned HC - not the goal I was after because smog testing isnt a factor here but they also give you more bang for your air/fuel charge which was the goal.

    Power increase will be significant, exact numbers at this time would be a guess because of other factors in the build but illl get some real numbers on a dynojet once its done.

    Carrier is ready to do a preload check then ill put the ring gear on for a backlash check, ill post pics because you asked nicely :)
     
  11. JCR

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    #11 JCR, Jul 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Higher compression ratio will lead to higher combustion temps. Thus an increase in NOx. Careful tuning of the FI should take care of it. There is a graph like the one below that shows one of the variables being CR but I'm unable to locate it.
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  12. Ferraripilot

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    #12 Ferraripilot, Jul 25, 2011


    The hugely increased quench efficiency will probably lower NOx. Better quench efficiency is sort of like adding better/higher octane gasoline. Detonation won't be as much of an issue, better idle, more efficient burn. All wins in my book.
     
  13. 412monzaindy

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    #13 412monzaindy, Jul 25, 2011
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    Same pistons installed in my 512BB, you will notice that there slightly above of the liner.
    Squeeze it.

    The only draw back is, the motor will ping when it is 35+ C ambient
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  14. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #14 Newman, Jul 25, 2011
    Not the same pistons other than brand but thats where the similarities end. Mine have hand finished domes as well which prevents pre-ignition, yours are not. I spoke with JE and specified what I wanted right down to ring pack placement and measured everything to arrive at the 10.5:1 ratio.

    If you didnt have your distributor curve checked and calibrated on a distributor machine like I did, you'll know very little about your advance rate, you'll just know base timing and max advance. Thats important but everything in between matters a great deal, more than most realize.

    Did you measure your actual compression ratio assembled?

    The dome sticking out of the top isnt the same discussion as zero deck clearance or above the deck, it has nothing to do with the dome.
     
  15. wlanast

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    #15 wlanast, Jul 25, 2011
    love the Boxer internal jewelry. Keep up the pics and great work.
    W
     
  16. AHudson

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    #16 AHudson, Jul 25, 2011
    HA! Nice find.

    Good work Paul. Will it be dynoe'd after assembled? Can't wait for updates.
     
  17. Gleggy

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    #17 Gleggy, Jul 25, 2011
    He's O.K .....................I suppose..........................






    for a Canadian.

    Thanks for the text message ....


    at 5.30 A.M. this morning.
     
  18. Ferraripilot

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    #18 Ferraripilot, Jul 26, 2011
    What's the deal with Boxers and timing anyway? Do they like a really sharp curve from idle to 3k rpm with most of the timing dialed in by then? I only know from 308s and 911s which both like most of their timing in by around 3500.
     
  19. Newman

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    #19 Newman, Jul 26, 2011
    Carbed and injected are different curves. I'll post the charts to show you the specs as well as the before and after adjusting on the distributor machine. Thanks goes to Bruce for setting them up on his machine and getting the curves right.
     
  20. 412monzaindy

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    #20 412monzaindy, Jul 26, 2011
    They are JE

    This is the pre-fit before disassembly.

    36 deg advance.

    10:5 static 10:82 measured

    It only pings on really hot days like last week.

    You can short shift all day,
     
  21. Newman

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    #21 Newman, Jul 26, 2011
    Static and measured doesnt make sense. Static is measured or the actual ratio as assembled. Dynamic is running ratio taking valve timing into consideration which is the ratio you really end up with. There is a target number you want to end up with which is determined by the combination of cam selection and compression ratio. Too high = ping, too low = slug of the line.

    Total advance is only a fraction of what matters.
     
  22. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #22 Newman, Jul 26, 2011
    I was thinking about this comment and wondered..... If you can hear it pinging over a tubi muffler and tubi headers when its hot out, what damage are you doing to this fresh engine? I would be concerned about screwing up the engine especially if you consider you may not hear it pinging when it is.
     
  23. MS250

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    #23 MS250, Jul 26, 2011
    Paul - i heard the car, its actually very quiet, he doesnt have tubi's on it, not sure what it is though.
     
  24. Newman

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    #24 Newman, Jul 26, 2011
    Thats too bad because he did put tubi headers on it. Seems like a waste if it sounds like a cadillac.
     
  25. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #25 Newman, Jul 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I picked up a set of Ti 512M rods for my boxer, rods weigh 400 grams vs 600 grams for the stock ones and the pistons are 30 grams lighter than stock yet higher compression.

    Timing cover finished with new seals and bearings.

    Some plating for both boxers

    Distributor results for both boxers and the 71 246GT
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