Paul. It is not a tubi. The headers are not tubi. You can hear it ping slightly if you pay attention on the 2 days last week. Yes I know how to calculate all that stuff, I can also caluculate and convert energy to watts and on and on, I have an power conversion engineering firm. As the ambient temp rises ( add 48c with humidity) that additional heat is going through the carbs then into the cumbustion chambers. That additional hear is what causes the slight pinging. 48c is quite a lot. I am sure your car will turn out nice.
With all due respect Paul owning a firm doesnt qualify you to setup a car or diagnose it nor does me working in the automotive trade for 25 years qualify me to own a firm such as yours. You offered me your original coated headers because you installed aftermarket headers, I assumed the replacements were Tubi for two reasons, one I was told they were Tubis and secondly because Tubi typically carries headers in stock whereas others such as Stebro make them to order. Replacing your stock coated headers with stock headers doenst make sense does it?
Great stuff! Love the pics. Every time I open the shell of the BB I am amazed by the beauty of the engine. Carobu Engineering did the restoration of the BB I am caring for. While still looking stock the engine dyno'd at 470 HP. They got much of the boost from intake revisions and different cams. Are you considering changing anything on the top end? The Boxer in my garage is a carb version. I guess that provides more opportunities for squeezing more hp. At least that is what I have been told........I know just enough to be dangerous
Lucky you with that boxer, saw it in forza spoke to Tate about it as well. Very nice car. The carbed car will retain stock cams as per the owners request. Better valves, header work, pistons, balance etc.... Mine being injected has its limitations if I retain the stock CIS. I can make just over 400HP on simulation software with the cams and pistons Ill be using. The CIS becomes a flow restriction beyond that. There are other options like running a pair of larger sensor plate housings (from a V8 mercedes for example) which will look stock once the air boxes are attached. I can also rework the throttle bodies which are pretty much hidden under the plenums on injected boxers. Headers and exhaust will also be modified. One trick im considering is a different final drive because I offer gear sets for boxers. I can chose a 3.73:1 as an example and really make this car launch. The Ti rods will change the way the engine revs as well and free up some HP losses with less rotational weight. Ill dyno both cars on a chassis dyno. If your engine was dynoed at 470 on an engine dyno you should now run it on a chassis dyno to get a real world number for drivetrain losses on these cars. I like to go with the 15% rule but all too often when these cars fall short of the specs on paper people sub in 18-20% to get the numbers they're after.
Paul, that advance curve is all well and good but I can't imagine you will be able to run the same total timing as a stock motor?? I see stock is asking for around 37-38 degrees? I bet you will be maxed at 35. Shiney stuff otherwise. Looks absolutely fabulous
Great thread dont mean to hijack but can you tell your BB has 470 hp vs any other BBs you have driven? Do you have other Ferraris to compare it to in performance? My 355 makes its power up higher rpms so you can feel it kick in the Boxers power is so flat it just keeps pulling so you dont get a sudden rush in power?
Yes, I do have a SuperAmerica as another big V12 monster for comparison purposes. My GTC and Dino don't fall into the same hp league. But more comparable was the 77 BB I had for 15 years. This Carobu BB is hands down faster. No doubt about the different feel. The torque boost over my previous BB is huge providing a real kick.
Hi Newman, fascinating job and very nice pics. I value you opinion very much and if you don't mind a few question: 1. Are the conrods standard 512M conrods? 2. Did you have the pistons fabricated and from what material? (Edit: OK, I see it is JE pistons) 3. How many crown wheel & pinions have you installed?
The rods are standard 512M. 512TR may be the same rod since they're Ti as well. I was looking for two sets of 360 rods originally to make a set of 12, they have larger pin bosses than the 512 rods but no big deal when you're having pistons made. I just lucked out on these so they're all the same weight etc.... Sold a few sets of crown and pinions in production ratios only with no issues. Have not made custom ratios but I know they will present challenges in that the inner support for the gearbox is very close to the crown gear, higher numerical ratios increase the thickness of the crown gear. A little creative machining gets the job done but probably not for the faint of heart. Wanna be my guinea pig?
We'll see what happens, too many factors but if I have to limit the advance I can do that. On the dino theres a small ring (that was missing and had to be fabricated) that limits total advance. I can adopt something like that to give me my base, my rate and limit total advance.
I know, what ever I do doesn't qualify me for anything. Am I being scrutinized? I never really offered you the headers, you actually emailed me first and asked about them.
Correct, I was looking for headers for the carbed car and made several calls on behalf of the owner. I recalled you put aftermarket ones on so thats why I thought I would ask and cover all the bases rather than just get them from the states. As it turns out, its $1000 cheaper to buy them from the states and I dont want coated ones, they look wrong as they were never coated from the factory. The ceramic coat that protects them holds heat in and makes the exhaust valves run hotter, thats not a good thing. Thanks for the option to buy though.
Tuesday night I put a cover on the coffee table in the living room and hung some pistons in front of the TV. Stock rods with ARP fasteners, resized and rebushed. The engine had an exhaust valve failure in the past, took out number 5 and 8 liners, pistons, rods and damaged one head. Scars left behind on the crank from the destruction as well as inside the block, came close to punching a hole out the top. Two rods of a different weight class were used and no attempt to match the weights was made. I dealt with that this time around. The crank balanced out perfectly with no alteration and finished it up with a polish. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I would be interested to see if that's true. The headers will still be hundreds of degrees with minimal air flow around the axles. A shield that provides an airgap is somewhat of a solution. I have something in mind to address that.
Fitted the liners today, cleaned all critical surfaces and installed the torque plate again with a used head gasket. When the liners were bored and honed in place with the torque plate, the piston to wall clearance was .0035" as per JE specs bearing in mind the intended use of the car (not race, no forced induction or power adders like NOS). The clearances were set, liners removed and the block hot tanked again. Today I cleaned the o-ring surfaces and examined everything then installed the liners. Prior to installing them in the block I took a feeler gauge and checked the liners for piston to wall clearance. A .005" feeler gauge pulled past the skirt with ease. I was concerned but I put the liners in and checked them under compression with the feeler gauges again, .0035" wall clearance with the liner in and under load with an o-ring - ambient temp of around 80F all three times. This reinforces the need for a torque plate at least on the flat 12. I know from some other observations during torquing the block halves together that the block distorts a great deal when assembled vs both halves standing on the bench when checking specific critical surfaces. Shop manual goes so far as to say torque block together less the crank and install heads before measuring crank saddle alignment and clearances. The ledge on the liner needs to be super clean as does the mating surface in the block for the o-ring to do its job. Corrosion on the block and ledge should be expected. Next ill check and set ring gaps and put the pistons in and get the heads on. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Heads on, next ill re-install the studs, timing cover then intake manifolds. What a cool looking engine, Ive had a flat 12 for 6 years and it still takes my breath away! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Looks really stunning. The time, care and effort you are spending on this rebuild makes one wish that your nearest F-pimp just spends half that time and care on their workmanship when working on one's mistress. Sadly though it is a disappearing art. I take my hat off for you.......
Newman's the man!! If any of you Boxer owners need this type of work done, send him an e-mail or PM, USA, or Canada. Ship it to him and you will get a "new Boxer" in return. He LOVES these cars like no one else, and takes the time an effort to make them right and perform better. Although he doesn't charge 60 bucks an hour,(a little more) the workmanship and peice of mind is worth TRIPLE the amount he will charge you. He has even had his restoration work profiled in Forza magazine. I don't think ANYBODY in this area (we call the GTA) has ever had that done. I now send ALL my older Ferrari work his way, and have nothing but happy customers thanking me for the referal. Cheers Paul..a nice bottle of Chabasse is on its way, along with another box of Ferrari part goodies, carbs, gears, gaskets, oh my!! See you soon.
A first for everything, but David would know more than anyone that this deserves my first ever "+1!" As many here would agree, a Boxer's internals are as sublime as its timeless exterior shape. The Miura may have "inspired" Enzo to go mid engine, but the result was nothing short of blowing the Miura performance-wise out of the water. I am only speaking from personal experience, but driving in the Boxer I was surprisingly not concerned if my life insurance was paid up as I was in the Miura! Great work, Paul. Thanks for sharing, and keep the pics coming!
Thanks gentlemen If it runs as good as it looks I might want a carbed boxer.........but I doubt it Gotta get my injected one back together, I have a pile of parts waiting I just need the time. Tonight I started re-installing the plated studs, ill insert the spark plug tubes, install timing cover, flip it around and do the studs on the underside. Once thats done ill install the cams. Installing the studs you see here ate up an hour. Taking them out takes probably twice as long because they have to be measured and cataloged. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
