how would you set the timing for a single distributor ? | FerrariChat
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how would you set the timing for a single distributor ?

Discussion in '308/328' started by [email protected], Jul 29, 2011.

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  1. andy2175m4@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2008
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    Andy Rein
    #1 [email protected], Jul 29, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
    I put a Holley Commander EFI controller and a Ford TFI distributor on my 1982, 308, and now I am working in timing the distributor.

    The ferrari manual has a timing chart that shows the factory timing (as controlled by the now very dead Digiplex) has a lot of negative timing in the lower RPM ranges, The Holley EFI computer controls both the fuel and timing, so I am working on transferring the timing values from the Digplex charts, to the Holley, and on to the TFI distributor.

    All the hardware is working fine so far, but compared to all the other timing curves I have ever seen, the Ferrari 308 timing curves are very strange. I suspect it's just for smog purposes, but has anyone out there put an aftermarket igntion in their 308, and what sort of timing curve did you use ?
     
  2. italianjoe

    italianjoe Formula Junior

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    joe
    #2 italianjoe, Jul 29, 2011
    why use a ford tfi ?with as many problems as ford has had with the stators and moudles i would think you would be better off with coil over plugs and not have to worry about a disributor and plug wires.......can you program holley commander to fire coil over plugs ?
     
  3. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    #3 mike996, Jul 29, 2011
    "has a lot of negative timing in the lower RPM ranges, "

    What do you mean by "negative timing" are you saying that it's ATDC? That's pretty hard to believe but I must admit I have not seen that particular Ferrari timing curve.

    Frankly, if the oem curve for your car actually goes to ATDC - can't imagine such a thing - but if it does I think I'd just start out with the euro 328 Ferrari curve and go from there. Can you set it up on a dyno? That would be the way to do it rather than guessing...one tried/true method is to advance to the point of maximum power and then back it off 2 degrees for "safety" in normal driving conditions. Though you could leave it at the max power if you are fairly observant about not lugging the engine.

    Keep in mind that if you use the max power setting - the results will change with different gasolines. That's why it's a good idea to back the timing off a bit to help with possible detonation.

    If you don't have access to a dyno you can advance to detonation and then back it off 2 degrees. Same caveat re gas.
     
  4. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

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    #4 Newman, Jul 29, 2011
    Twin distributor cars with R1 R2 points run ATDC at idle to reduce HC. Forget performance!
     
  5. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #5 luckydynes, Jul 29, 2011
    Andy ... the manual has the euro curve ... program that.

    Did you get your EFI problem sorted?


    cheers
     
  6. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #6 luckydynes, Jul 29, 2011

    yeah ... tons of it on the U.S. 2 valve injected car ... those were bad days for smog complicance. The cars run better with the hose to the digiplex disconnected making the unit think the car is at WOT the whole time. Even that curve is not that agressive ... 32 full.

    cheers
     
  7. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #7 luckydynes, Jul 29, 2011
    Andy ... I posted an excel spreadsheet on here years ago that was my interpretation of the euro curves. It had the units conversion for load but FYI no one pointed out that I had full throttle/full vacum backwards so I was actually running 42 deg full advance at full throttle. The stock low compression motor loved it. It wasn't until I burned a valve with nitrous that I realized the curves with respect to load were reversed.

    cheers!
     
  8. andy2175m4@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Formula Junior

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    Andy Rein
    #8 [email protected], Jul 30, 2011
    The holley ECU is rather archaic by today's standards, and is only compatible with a limitied number of distributor types, mainly TFI and GH HEI. It works well with the TFI, and the Holley manual has no support for any COP, nor even EDIS,

    I know the TFI distributor module is problematic, but it works for now so I am going to stick with it.
     
  9. andy2175m4@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Formula Junior

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    Andy Rein
    #9 [email protected], Jul 30, 2011
    Yes I did, by and large......

    For quite a while I tried to get a Megasquirt to work with the Marelli Digiplex, but it just would not work. Just could not get it to run smooth. It would start, but would run rough and die.

    But I knew I had a good Holley ECU, because it worked on the Thunderbird, so it had to be the digiplex. So I went back to the Holley, and started over.

    Turns out the Holley ECU did not like the RPM signal from the Digiplex, those two would not talk to each other, so I installed a Ford TFI distributor, with a gear to reverse the rotation, and now it actually runs. Starts right up, the Holley is Extremely happy running with the TFI distributor. Now I just have to straighten out the timing and the fuel map and acceleration enrichment. The holley is very limited in what type of ignitions it will work with, right out of the box. I have an EDIS, but the Holley will not support that ignition without some mods.

    I may get the EDIS working some day, but for now the TFI distributor is working fine as an interim solution.

    I also installed a wide band O2 sensor, which is working fine.

    The main thing I think was that the Digiplex was never working well, and I did not want to spend the $$$ to replace them, I could not find any info on how to bench test the digiplex, so I just gave up on it and machined the TFI distributor to fit on the 308.

    It's been quite an epic journey getting the 308 to work my way, but I think I am almost there.

    The reason why I am trying to program the US 2 valve engine timing curve into the Holley is because I am trying to pass smog. Right now the car runs really rich, and the first trip to smog pros was a joke...not even close.

    I will look at all the Ferrari manual timing curves and see if any of them make more sense.

    If you could find the spreadsheet of the timing and send it that would be cool, or tell me how to search F chat ?

    thanks

    Andy
     
  10. andy2175m4@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2008
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    Andy Rein
    #10 [email protected], Jul 30, 2011
    I found the spreadsheet in F Chat,

    thanks

    Andy
     

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