328 A/C Compressor

Mike, I don't know much about Duracool; I've seen the claims but have never tracked down the physical stats (no P-T chart, no mass / enthalpy numbers), so I'm out of my league here.

But, I will point out: the situation you mention, blowing very cold air but unable to cool the cabin, is also a symptom of a system that is underfilled or a TXV that is unable to flow sufficient mass flow of refrigerant. In both of those cases, the low side pressure goes abnormally low (even into vacuum!), which causes the evaporator to run at a very cold temperature (abnormally cold, potentially much below freezing). But as the mass flow of refrigerant is actually too low, the net heat transfer capability is greatly reduced and so the short term very cold air effect doesn't reflect the reality of insufficient cooling. (Further, systems with these problems often result in evaporator icing, especially with any significant humidity - but the system can appear to be operating just fine as the compressor cycles in and out based on the thermostat.)

In this kind of situation, it's entirely possible that adding more refrigerant to your system would raise your evaporator temps, and thus raise your air outlet temps, but actually result in better cabin cooling in actual use.

But, like I said, I don't know the parameters for Duracool, and I have no idea how you actually charged the system.

-frank

 

Frank -

After new exp valve, dryer and all new o-rings I evacuated the system to approx 30" (Max reading on the gauge) and held that for an hour. The new exp valve was the correct valve for the system/R12

Initially I followed the Duracool recommendations re charge weight vs R12 charge weight. Using the oem spec of 2.2 lbs of R12, Duracool charge was 14OZ as I recall. Don't hold me to that recollection but I believe that was the number. (I don't have my notes here so I'm doing this by memory). I do not have a scale but I used two 6 oz cans of Duracool and then a "bit more" from a 3rd can. Then I checked evap temp/ambient temp and it was around 40 degrees.

Then I added additional DC a bit at a time until the I got the temp difference to around 45 degrees, at which point adding more raised the evap temp. So I bled some off until I got it back to 45 degrees difference and at that point the evap temp was 38 degrees. Since I couldn't get it any better by adding or subtracting DC, I figured that was the best it could be.

I was not aware of the possibility you described whereby the evap temp can be low but the heat transfer not very effective. The operating pressure at 2k RPM is: low side around 40, high around 180. THe evap has not iced up - I'm very familiar with that particular symptom from owning an old car with an add-on unit that did that quite regularly.

But I'm not adverse to adding a bunch more DC and seeing what happens. I just ASSUMED that if you get the temp differential to its maximum, that was the best performance you could get. But as I have pointed out, I am a reluctant ac tech and do NOT have any experience other than what I have learned as a result of owning a Ferrari! I never needed to know anything about it before...

IMO, the evaporator fan just doesn't move much air volume though it sounds pretty darned busy at max speed setting but perhaps the issue is related to what you described. But I have to admit that I don't understand how you could improve performance by adding refrigerant to raise evap temp. But I'm sure willing to learn!

 

1. AC (and car too) has not run for 20+ years is now empty of r12
2. have new drier and exp valve (car and parts are in NJ)
3. AC squeals at start up but stops after a minute (AC Turned off) I guess it's the clutch
4. Scheduled for AC service next week to vac and recharge (R134) and get working

1. Should I convert to the Sanden SD6h15?
A new efficient, lighter (and likely sealed) compressor would be nice
2. If so where do I get the Brackets to mount up correctly to 79 308 GT4

I've read through old postings about converting over and the pully and belts and fitting up to the stock brackets hose conversion .... There is no Retrofit Bracket part number I could find.

3. Do I order Euro Brackets? From where?
4. Is there a GM/Ford/Fiat/Jaguar ... Sanden bracket part number I can order to mate up?
5. Or ... Should I replace the clutch bearing on the York Compressor? Any one have a Part number or source?

Don't care about how cool it is relative to R12 just a trickle of cool air would be nice in that green house. Also my wife won't go in the car if it is loud, low, uncomfortable, bumpy, smells like oil and gas driven by a maniac and HOT TOO.

Thanks for the help.

 

I missed any 134a TXV part number recommendations. If Kia and/or Mazda 323, what year(s) or part numbers are they?

 

Here is the best link I could find to the York to Sanden bracket. Your local AC shop can maybe get it cheaper, but this is pretty reasonable:

http://www.britishac.com/air-conditioning/york-to-sanden-compressor-bracket-552.php

Be careful on the installation of the Sanden in to the Ferrari. The clutch flange is surprisingly close to the belt cover. Since the Ferrari mount only uses three of the four possible bolts, the compressor will have a torque kick when the clutch engages. This can push the clutch into the belt cover. To minimize, use several large washers on both sides of the rubber mounting bushings to the bracket, make sure the compressor is slid as far to the outside as possible and tighten the bolts down well.

 

What about the "V" on the clutch pulley? I've heard the Sanden pulley has a different V profile which does not allow the Ferrari's sharper V belt to mate right.

 

Here are 2 pics of adapters from:
http://www.britishac.com/air-conditioning/york-to-sanden-compressor-bracket-552.php

and whole kit with Sanden Compressor (of some kind???) from:
http://www.abilenemachine.com/international-tractors-compressor-conversion-kit-york-to-sanden-AMX10165.html

They look like very similar kits though they have somwhat different offsets for the bolt holes thugh that can be adjusted by opening up the slot.
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I read that this type of bracket allows you to rotate the compressor to adjust belt tension and therefore you will not need to use the OEM belt tensioner.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230436651993&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

I have ordered one, it is a york to sanden conversion bracket but not just the flate plate type.
I do not know if it works yet but the post stated that it did.

 

From an old post
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Guys, where are we regarding the V belt issue? My crank (drive) pulley and belt is the stock 65 degree V while the Sanden stock pulley fits what - 35 degrees?

Do we care???

 

I did the conversion on my ex GT4 because the seal went in the york and it was just easier for me to retrofit a sanden.I did use the bracket kit pictured above and yes the oe belt tensioner is no longer needed.As far as the V belt profile concern,I did this conversion 3 yrs ago now and sold the car 2 yrs ago to a friend of mine and he's had no problems at all with it.

 

Wouldf this qualify or is the end wrong where the connections are made?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350471143377&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNAFP%3AUS%3A1123

 

They have a 2 groove pulley which you do not need. It's also listed to fit on 18 wheeler trucks. I'd keep looking.......

 

I wonder why Ferrari only fitted the York to US cars originally, while others got the Sanden?

 

Still checking.......

 

"I wonder why Ferrari only fitted the York to US cars originally, while others got the Sanden?"

US customers were far more demanding of their ac systems than Europeans; it's also generally a lot hotter in the southern US than it is in Europe. European ac on just about any car prior to at least mid 80's or even later was quite marginal by US standards.

From all the specs I have read, that York moved more refrigerant than the Sanden of that period.

 

How come it doesn't matter which direction of rotation the compressor rotates so that it can be mounted opposite the motor instead of the usual way as on american cars? Are compressors omni-directional?

 

It would not make any difference, the "firing order" of the cylinders would be reversed but they only all add to the total volume so not a problem.
Some designs of electrical clutch which use a coil spring to grip an internal shaft are directional but the Sanden just uses a simple friction plate clutch.

 

Thank you, just was wondering.

 

Well, after trying to locate the A/C leak in my '87 328, I found it. In the compressor, somewhere.

At this point, I've decided to go ahead and convert to R134. like I did with my previous 308 carbie.

I've read this thread but frankly, it's a bit confusing. Can somebody provide exact Sanden compressor, filter/drier/ and TXV valve part # info, as I need to purchase right away.

My supplier, Carr Auto Parts, in Houston, has gone out of business, and he was my Ferrari A/C part expert connection..

Thanks in advance,
Greg in Houston

 

Also, would be helpful to have definitive answers regarding the sanden clutch pulley; they come with double-groove pulleys. Can the OEM single- groove pulley be retrofitted to the sanden?

what about the hose ports? Do the sanden hose ports work within the tight confines of the 328 engine bay? I'd like to keep things simple and retain use of the Schrader valves on the OEM hose fittings, if they can be arranged to clear everything.

 

Hoping for a response to my last two posts, so here's a bump!

Greg

 

No,the original pulley found on the York wont fit on the Sanden,but there is no problem with using the Sanden twin pulley besides a visual one.Yes the profile is slightly wider on the Sanden pulley against the pulley on the crank,but I used a general belt and it worked fine and has been on the car for approx 5 yrs without problems(second belt as the first was replaced after 3 years during the belt service)

No the Sanden ports are different to the York ports.You will need to cut of the existing hose fittings and buy two new fittings that will have to be attached to the existing hoses with a portable hydraulic hose crimping tool.The fittings will have to have the service ports on them.From memory you need an 8 and 10 barbed ferrule fittings.

Best thing to do is fit the compressor and look at which fittings you will need.From memory I used 90° fittings.
http://acpartsguys.com/hose_fittings__ports (3rd picture down)

Technically speaking,you are not supposed to keep the schrader valve when converting to R134a.

 

You will need this kit as well.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/YORK-SANDEN-4510-8390-COMPRESSOR-MOUNT-KIT-/400175519174

 

Thanks Maurice, much appreciated.

Greg