Strad vs Scud | FerrariChat

Strad vs Scud

Discussion in '360/430' started by AmoCS, Aug 13, 2011.

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  1. AmoCS

    AmoCS Formula Junior

    Mar 20, 2006
    385
    Full Name:
    Amo
    Does anyone own both cars, or has owned both cars?
    Would be interesting to read a detailed review of how they compare, along with + & - for both models.

    Thanks
     
  2. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 29, 2010
    19,897
    Wyoming
    this has been covered here before...try some searches in this forum.

    I own a CS and have spent time driving a Scud, both on the road and on the track. Both are raw and brilliant. The Scud does essentially everything better than the CS. Its faster, torque-ier, handles better (safer), shifts better. In the subjective arena, I think the Scud interior is superior too (likely not too many disagree with this) and I prefer the exterior look of the sensual/perfect CS to the more angular/meaner Scud (essentially the same diff between the 360 and 430 looks that has been discussed here often).

    Perhaps I can best sum up my view by saying I love my CS, but strongly suspect that I will own a Scud at some point and perhaps trade the CS on it...

    Oh, and order of magnitude price is $140k for a CS vs. $200k for a Scud, or $60k more (folks will chime in saying you can get examples of both for less, but I will argue the delta is still around $60k).
     
  3. h2oskier

    h2oskier F1 Veteran

    Oct 1, 2006
    5,252
    inside someone hot
    Full Name:
    MJA
    Arizona summed it up

    Scud is better in every way. Cs looks grand but I like my scud look best. I love the cs as a driver but grab the keys to the scud 7 of 10 times

    I own both
     
  4. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jan 16, 2005
    4,661
    Loved my CS for 5 years, traded it for a SCUD, no regrets, except from my bank manager
     
  5. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    I think is also depends on what other cars you own and how exclusive you want to be.

    I have an Enzo, CS, and F40. For me, the Scud was kind of ordinary compared to the CS. Yes, it's faster, but nothing else feels or sounds like the very raw CS. I doubt Ferrari will make another car that's as raw as the CS. Their best clients will not buy it!

    And at shows, it's much less likely to see a CS than a Scud.

    There's kind of a cult following for the CS. I don't see that with the Scud.

    In my opinion, Scuds and 430s will start to blend together. But I don't see 360s and CSs blending together. The CS is just a complete piece of junk... to those that don't appreciate its purpose! The Scud smoothed that all out.
     
  6. rcallahan

    rcallahan F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 15, 2002
    3,307
    Santa Barbara
    Full Name:
    Bob Callahan
    I own a CS and have driven a SCUD both on the street and hundreds of laps on the track. The scud is faster with more HP. It is also heavier. I think the main reason the scud is faster is because of the transmission. The first time i drove the scud it seemed softer, quieter, and not as harsh and "race car" feel that the CS has.

    Ferrari has stated that the CS was too severe for most of their clients and "toned down" the scud.

    If you want a fast car that feels as though it was truly meant for the track, buy a CS.
     
  7. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #7 Bill S, Aug 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Actually, the Scud is amazingly light when it's ordered that way...
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. AmoCS

    AmoCS Formula Junior

    Mar 20, 2006
    385
    Full Name:
    Amo


    First time I've read this, was it an official statement, or a publication via a magazine.
     
  9. AmoCS

    AmoCS Formula Junior

    Mar 20, 2006
    385
    Full Name:
    Amo

    Hi Bill,
    I trust this was your review too - (no1)

    http://www.************.com/challenge-stradale-owner-reviews-t52.html
     
  10. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
  11. andybm3

    andybm3 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 12, 2003
    237
    USA
    Full Name:
    Andy
    I owned a CS for 2.5 years and have had my Scud for almost two years and while both are fine cars, the Scud is a better drivers car in almost every respect IMHO. If you are looking for exclusivity the CS is the way to go as mentioned earlier as there are a ton of Scud's out there, but from a pure driving perspective it's the Scud.
     
  12. jackal2513

    jackal2513 Karting

    Oct 17, 2005
    61
    You need both ! Its the only way ....
     
  13. vm3

    vm3 Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2007
    728
    California
    #13 vm3, Aug 13, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2011
    Since getting my CS several years ago I have also bought a regular 430 and 458 and test drove a Scuderia. The only one I love is the CS. The other ones are good but as soon as something better comes along, I would trade them in but I am keeping the CS. Although the CS has a terrible transmission, it is the one that feels most like a race car and the look is classic inside and outside. Which one is better for you depends on whether you prefer rawness or refinement. I like rawness. Too much refinement makes a Ferrari feel more like a mass market sport coupe, not the ultimate sports car.
     
  14. MikeR397

    MikeR397 Formula 3

    May 9, 2010
    1,469
    SE Michigan
    What is so terrible about the cs tranny? I know the Scud's is improved, but is is really true to say the CS has a "terrible" tranny? What does that say for the 360 F1 which most agree is "solid/adequate" although not as great as the F430 improvements. TIA.
     
  15. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    If you keep it in Race mode and shift over 7,000, it's very fast.

    If you're not in Race mode and shift at low RPM, it feels slow.
     
  16. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 29, 2010
    19,897
    Wyoming
    And I'd say its relative. Compared to my Maser GS Spider, the CS is much crisper and quicker even in sport mode. Race is much faster. The 430 F1 is a bit better...the Scud is quicker/sharper than that. Drive 'em. I don't "mind" the CS transmission at all...wish I could say the same for the maser...
     
  17. F430GT

    F430GT Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2005
    1,300
    Marco Island, FL
    The Scuderia had the optional engine lid in carbon fiber, rocker panels in carbon fiber and forged aluminum 5 spoke wheels. With these options, it was lighter than the Stradale. Configured in their lightest settings: the Scuderia is the lightest car of both.

    Some of the raw feeling in the Stradale has to do with engine loud sound level when driven a normal speeds and light throttle, and its rear alignment (easy to fix) that make the rear end step out too easily. After speding $150k-$200k for a car, I still find it difficult to believe why people praise/complain about sound quality after so many exhaust options both from the factory and aftermarket. Stock exhaust, the Stradale is louder under light throttle and the Scuderia is louder at full throttle (even louder than a F430 Challenge), their stock sound isn't great, the 458 Italia sounds better.

    The performance gap between both cars is gigantic. Around the Nurburgring the Scuderia lapped 17 secs faster, it a gigantic gap. To illustrate what a 17 secs gap is, currently a front wheel drive econo-box Renault laps the Ring just 12 secs slower than the Stradale. So comparing the performance of the Renaul econo-box, a Boxster Spyder or a Cayman R to a Stradale is actually a closer battle than comparing the Stradale to the Scuderia.

    So, if you need to look good, get the Stradale, if you need to go fast get the Scuderia.
     
  18. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    As you've commented yourself before the stock CS ride height and geometry isn't best suited for a track such as the 'ring. From factory it is setup as a compromise really, with 20% track with 80% road usage in mind. If it wasn't the case for example the tires would be scrubbed out prematurely and would last next to no time. This can really be improved on for a huge improvement in track performance. Particularly adjusting roll bar rates, springs, tires and geometry.

    Both cars share essentially the same basic chassis (ok, so its braced up a bit more on the F430 floor pan for improved stiffness at the cost of some extra weight) by Alcoa. This 'sameness' even includes (right down to mm) the same hard cast suspension mounting points, the same wheelbase, even the same ZF Sach electronically controlled shocks. These similarities continue to the same space frame, same roof, same doors, same front trunk lid, same cabin dimensions, the same cast suspension arms, ball joints and even same JMB tie rod ends front and back. Even the same identical rear anti roll bar is carried across onto the Scud.

    Where the Scud improves things is with the computer adaptive traction, both the Geo and the E-Diff helping to get the power down vs the mechanical LSD of the CS and also improving the stability of the braking no end.

    Where the Scud is helped is with the 1/2" wider front rims allowing for improved front end grip (so the front end doesn't wash out quite so easily). Also the extra torque and grunt from the engine is especially beneficial to faster lap times but that alone doesn't amount to the differences seen on the ring. No the ring differences are setup, tyres and traction.
     
  19. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 11, 2001
    6,336
    On the Limit
    Full Name:
    Dino
    Oh no! Not magazine racing again! Face it, both of these cars' abilities far exceed the skill levels of most owners, so "who did what time" at some race track is just academic. I am an instructor, and have wasted both the CS and the Scud, while driving an old E46 M3. That doesn't mean that the M3 is faster. All it means is the driver is faster. A better driver in either car would lap the M3.

    Either car is dynamically brilliant, and the choice is a matter of personal taste. My money goes on the CS.
     
  20. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    36,210
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    it depends on how sensitive and/or emotional you are..;)

    the scud is a very fast and competent car that is just as refined as the 430.

    the cs is a very fast and competent car that is less refined, more raw, and gives you a thrill every time. it also beats the crap out of you over long distances, doesnt need a radio since you cant hear it, and will not be your wife's favorite ride on a date. you also wont see yourself coming and going.

    take your pick. :)
     
  21. RDI

    RDI Formula Junior

    Jul 11, 2009
    284
    Ontario Canada
    Clearly the Scuderia is the far better performing car, Better brakes, better engine & better transmission etc. Cult following what does that mean?? For the most part Ferrari as a brand has a Cult following.

    The 360CS is a special car but trying to suggest it is the better performing car because it has a cult following will only leave you disappointed. If it is all about performance then you know the answer the Scuderia is the clear cut winner. Don't let the cult followers kid you.

    Both cars will leave a big smile on your face good luck with the choice.
     
  22. zakeen

    zakeen Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2004
    989
    Czech Republic
    If people like the CS because its the CS, then that is totally fine. Its up to the individual as to what he prefers.

    But to make statements like " both of these cars' abilities far exceed the skill levels of most owners, so "who did what time" at some race track is just academic." I think is wrong, sorry. You might be faster around a track with an M3 against most people in the Scud, but I guaranty you, you will be much faster around the track in the Scud then in an M3. The car does make THE difference.
     
  23. F430GT

    F430GT Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2005
    1,300
    Marco Island, FL
    There are less 360 CS in the market, but they are still way too many as to call the car exclusive. The Cult about the Stradale is hard to understand but it is real, same as the Cult for the 599 Fiorano Scuderia (some call it a 599 GTO).

    For street use, I would choose the Stradale, and bank $60k.

    For track day use, the Stradale is too far behind (performance wise) many cars from other manufacturers: Nissan GTR, Vetter ZR1/Z06, Porsche GT3 from 2004-2011, GT2, Viper, MP4-12C, LFA, R8-V10, and others. I don't like to play the slow guy at a track day.

    The Scuderia is cheaper to maintain and more reliable. The 4.3 breaths easily at 8,500 rpm, it could use another 300 rpm, and the F1 tranny on its lastest iteration is as fast as many dual-clutch out there without the weight penalty, it is one of my favorite features in the Scuderia, the other being the e-diff (it gets to insane levels of grip).

    My car has seen autocrosses, drag races, track days, canyon driving, it even crossed the border to Mexico and drove on bad roads. It is just solid. It is the most reliable car I have owned, with almost 10,000 miles. More reliable than any Toyota I had before. I have stack of maintenance bills from my Porsches, and just oil changes in the Scuderia.

    Both cars are great, I think the Stradale at $140k is a bargain. I think the Scuderia at $200k is a little overpriced, the car should be worth $170k, but I don't set the market. On the same line, the F458 is overpriced, and the 599 Scuderia way too overpriced, and we all know what happens when the bubble bursts.
     
  24. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,612
    Dallas, TX, USA
    But we're not racecar drivers... we're not trying to win $$$ by winning races... nobody's going to be wowed when you're fast at the track in your Ferrari (you should be, you're driving a damn Ferrari). If you want to win races, you need to be selecting a car that is good in some race class... which no Ferrari street car ever will be. I dare say that none of us are trying to break the record at the 'ring... most of us not even at our local race track.

    We all have different reasons for buying the cars we buy... for me, its about FUN! The sound, the feel, the lightness, the sound, the ability to go to the track and not need to change the brake pads and go to the nice restaurant and not squeak into my parking spot, the exhilaration, the sound, the beauty (its like driving rolling art around town), the acceleration from 60 to 100mph to pass traffic, ... oh, and did I mention that sound? All that stuff makes the CS the funnest car on the road TO ME.

    But I can't fault others who judge differently... cuz all that stuff is subjective... and how you prioritize those various things is personal. BUT, I will fault arguments that the Scud is better than the CS because it is faster at the 'ring when some super-stud driver is behind the wheel. That affects my FUN factor exactly zero... and can't see how it affects anybody else's enjoyment of their car enough to matter.
     
  25. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,612
    Dallas, TX, USA

    I agree on the radio... but not the other two.

    My CS is actually one of the most comfortable cars I've ever driven long distances in! Way more comfortable than the Honda Pilot for example (I pick that just because I've driven the same stretches of road in both... and the Pilot ought to be more comfy). I know, seems counter-intuitive. I fully expected it to be painful over time... seats are damn hard... no lumbar support... minimal adjustability. We brought extra little pillows and stuff, expecting it to be bad. HOWEVER, as it turned out, the way it cradles me seems to distribute the forces amazingly well, the side bolsters support my arms in a relaxed driving position. Literally no driving fatigue. When you add in effortless passing on 2-lane roads and the fun factor... I love to take trips in it.

    Now, with that said, it will beat the crap out of you on roads with pot holes or sharp transitions in pavement or train tracks, etc. Ouch. Fortunately, my long trips largely avoid those.

    Oh, and my wife loves it as a date car... but she is a bit of a car nut herself.
     

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