Looking for a new winter driver

My MINI Cooper S has been a great winter car but is starting to get a little long in the tooth so I've begun looking for a replacement. Trouble is I can't find anything that appeals to me. Here's a list of what I'm looking for:
1. Must be reliable.
2. Must seat at least four. Coupes are fine as my girls are 5 and 3 don't take much room. Sedans are boring. Wagons are cool.
3. The fewer computers the better. I just can't stand new cars and all the driver aid crap. That said, 4WD is good for Canadian winters.
4. Must be interesting/different. Seeing hundreds of the same car on the road really takes the wind out of my sails.
5. Small is good. I'm not looking for an SUV or barge.

So far, I've considered a Porsche 964 C4, Audi Ur-quattro, and Volvo bricks. Anything else I should consider? I'm pretty hard on my winter car (drive-through car wash, park it outside) so I'm not looking for anything exotic but rather something that's older but reliable and has some character to make the drive an experience. Ideas?

 

I don't think you could do much better than a 964 C4 (although I think it is a stretch to say it seats 4. Are you sure you need the 4wd though? I have driven a couple regular rwd 911s in snow without much problem. They have excellent traction climbing hills and on a flat. An S6 Avant is a cool car as is an Audi Allroad (avoid the turbo charged ones).

 

WRX
Mazdaspeed 6

 

Have you considered a Subaru? If you're looking for power and fun for the winter I would say WRX, you could go STi but that has a little more electronics (DCCD-- driver controlled center differential). Subaru's have a mechanical AWD system that is full time AWD (not the electronic switchable systems on Volvo's). The Subaru will be a whole lot less expensive to maintain and repair than the Porsche and Audi but of course you won't get those levels of refinement on the interior. The WRX after 2008 has 265hp and of course comes with a 5 speed and is super practical especially if you get the hatch. Subaru's can be beaten on all day long and will take it no problem and they are especially safe and fun. Every Subaru model for at least the last 5 years has been an IIHS top safety pick with 5 stars all around. The only real electronics on the WRX is the traction control (which can be fully disabled, I'm not sure about the Volvo system).

I will always speak highly of my Subaru as I think it is one of the only cars below $45k that gives you that intangible connection between driver and machine, and mine is a non turbo!

 

Just to be different...

Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
Mitsubishi Exclipse GSX
Volvo S60R (I know it is a sedan)

 

+1 for Subaru but..

2008 Golf R32, not sold in Canada when new due to bumper rules (since changed) and later a few have been imported, so very rare.

Will hold value in Canada well, you could probably import for low 20's. (a good clean example)

250-horse V6, all-wheel drive with DSG

They were allowed in when the bumper rules were harmonized, You could probably sell it for what you paid for it after a few years..

 

Thanks for some interesting ideas. I never thought of Mitsubishi and will check out Subaru as well, though I see WRX's every day. Maybe an older model that is a little more rare?
I did come across a Lancia Delta Integrale 16v that is for sale here locally. Very cool car but am I nuts to drive it daily in the winter?

 

I wouldn't drive a Lancia in the salt, they are rare enough! Plus I think it would rust on it's own

Check out the 2007 WRX Limited, those look ace and are slightly more rare. I don't think you'll ever find a Subaru that is ultra rare unless you find a GC series chassis. I know in the states that series never got the turbo but Canada could be different

 

I will obviously say Subaru since as you can see in my avatar, I drive one. I would recommend a Subaru Forester XT which is the turbo version, basically an STI engine in a suv. (I know you said no SUV's )I have an STI with aftermarket fun stuff so I know and it plows through snow like nothing. If I had to choose I would get a WRX or a Legacy GT, both great in snow and actually look decent.

 

The Forester has just a 4 speed auto tranny, correct? I drove one in the mountains, and found 4 speeds to be unacceptably incompetent.........

 

if you test drive a 09+ WRX, you'll buy a 09+ WRX.

 

I've looked at WRX's and think they are great cars, but aren't they heavily controlled by computers? My MINI has traction control, stability control, blah blah blah and I really don't like it. When I deactivate them the car then acts and feels much more like a FWD car, which I don't like either. Call me crazy but I'm looking for something with a more pure driving feel. Even ABS drives me nuts some times. Yes, I realize the driving aids make driving in snow easier but careful driving has kept me out of trouble all this time. The other con about the WRX is that they are everywhere, even the STi's. The old ones have all but disappeared, it seems, though, and I like the look and small size of the old RS.
I keep finding myself coming back to a 964 or 996 C4, though the Lancia intrigues me, as does an Audi RS2. Neither of those were imported to Canada but we have a few kicking around here. I'm just not sure how they would fare against our salty winter roads.
Honestly, I don't care if I spend $3k or $30k. All I hope to find is something that provides a pure driving experience, I can drive it guilt-free in the winter, is dead reliable, and is something you don't see every day.

 

I really think the Subaru fits all of these categories... except the last one. All you have to do is turn off traction control and you have no nannies and they will take literal abuse, not just hard driving but abuse.

I wish North America would have gotten the RS series in turbo form, but you can definitely find RS' with WRX or STi conversions... If you are willing to look of course.

I would say Audi Allroad but I really think it would be in the shop 70% of the time, and it's not really a pure experience.

 

Audi RS4 - not sure how reliable they are
Saab 9-2X (basically a Subaru WRX wagon)

I like the R32 idea a lot.

 

Great car! I own one But if he's calling his Mini "long in the tooth," I don't think there is any way he is going to want a 20 year old P-car as a replacement. I'd call the "seats 4" more than a stretch too.

 

Hmm....unmentioned by others....

New/Rare

Suzuki Kizashi

Rare, wagons preferred or coupes, reliable

Jaguar X type Wagon 3.0
Saab 9-3 Aero Turbo X Wagon (280 HP)

Older

MB E300/320 4Matic Wagon

Really weird/rare.....

VW Passat Wagon W8 4motion
VW Phaeton
Mercury Milan AWD (hey, in Canada....)

I hate winter driving and loathe the melody of salt granules bouncing against (hopefully existent) inner liners.
On a crappy, frozen morning with the snow plow arriving ten minutes before I leave, kindly dumping a second accumulation to elevate the blockade at the end of my driveway with yet another foot of ice detritus, give me a Saab. The doors never freeze, the seats warm quickly and damn if it doesn't blast through everything.

 

Another interesting car would be the late 80s Toyota Celica All Trac

 

Mitsubishi EvoIV.

Another vintage rare AWD car that there are a few of in Canada but not so reliable that no one has mentioned is Ford Cosworth Escort.

Or Mazda GTX or GTR.

 

Subaru SVX.

 

I know you said not an SUV, but what about the MINI Countryman? It's a pretty small SUV and still has the MINI cuteness that the kids will love.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

I'm a big fan of the Countryman.

 

Subaru SVX is a crazy cool idea! But I don't like theirs looks. I have been exploring the WRX's and the wagons are starting to grow on me, plus they seem to have endless mod possibilities to make one stand out from the crowd. You don't see modded wagons every day.
I still like the 964's but also am starting to like the '02+ 996's. I'm checking out a couple of C4's tomorrow as well as an Audi S2 coupe with an Audi/Porsche RS2 drivetrain that supposedly puts out 470hp through 6 gears! I also hope to check out a Subaru WRB WRX wagon. Hmm...

 

If you are in Toronto and get a Audi S2, the best place to service it is Four Star Motorsports run by the Sprongl brothers who campaigned a very trick S2 to multiple Canadian rally championships and hillclimb records. And if you choose Subaru, check out CanJam Motorsports who were the Subaru Canada factory rally team and still campaign them in both rally and roadracing. Performance-wise and for availability of parts, the Subaru trumps the Audi.

Besides the AWD platforms, both shops can set up your car for winter driving (proper tires, suspension, diff and swaybar settings). Proper winter tires are a bigger asset than AWD in snow/ice. Frank Sprongl is the master winter rally driver in all N America and would with a lesser car beat WRC drivers on snow/ice the times they've visited.

 

man, a ferrari forum, and no body has said suggested the first 4-wheel drive ferrari yet!?
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It's a Ferrari forum where a lot of Ferrari fans dislike a Ferrari Mindblown

Oh...and technically aren't all Ferrari's 4-wheel drive?