I'm amused at the skepticism. I wasn't the one who spotted them; but even so, how do you expect a photograph to be taken of two VIN plates at the same time?
Just as I suspected. More second hand "sightings" and nonsense perpetuated by people on message boards. You really need to come up with something better than "someone saw two". After all this time there is still no real documentation of more than one existing and none of you "experts" have been able to come up with any. You know why? Because there is only one and you never will. The burden of proof is on you. Good luck.
Sheehan's article on the matter can be found here. http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/article.php?reqart=SCM_200705_SS
To be fair, the burden of proof rests rather more so upon anyone making the claim that just one 99999 F50 exists. The reason is because the aforementioned claim seeks to establish the ultimate in singular exclusivity, and because the fact remains that this status is at the very least questioned by many. Now that John Mushman is making some very specific claims, I would suggest that this venue would be an excellent one for him to post proof of the claims he has made today. Here lies an opportunity for him to clear up he car's history once-and-for-all, and for the rest of us to read & learn. I have already stated here that to me, none of this detracts from the car's appeal with its unique factory chassis number.
As far as I can tell, none of the people who echo the rumours have had anything to do with this car, neither have they ever seen it before the auction in January. Neither has anyone shown the beginning of any acceptable proof, except for second or third hand hearsay. This is a perfect example of baseless reputation bashing, some of it with personal motivations (sorry I cannot explain, it would get me in trouble), others just for the heck of it. At some point Joe said "market speaks". Well, I am genuinely convinced that a day will come when this car will be the most expensive F50 ever. Carbon nice input, but what if you owned a unique car, and people kept saying there are several around, would it be up to you to prove that your car is unique, or would it be up to those who say there are several, to prove that there are indeed other examples ? This one has it all : the history, the numbers (VIN, engine), the documents, the Classiche, the Modis printout, the assembly number, the lock number, the famous owner, the photos... Now somebody in this forum pls come up with car N°2 and show us what he has ? I'm afraid there will be a big silence here. Ps: every point in MS's article has already been cleared in the beginning of this thread : it was always the same car, apart from the the Galleria one from which they removed the plate upon Mrs Swater's request.
Why are you skeptical to believe that Ferrari has produced more than one car bearing the same serial number? Do you have some skin in the game? Enlighten me as to the roots of your staunch opposition on this matter? Ferrari has indulged in numerous dubious practices since the inception of the company - before, even, perpetrated by the man himself! So why is it such a stretch to imagine that two cars have the exact same serial number? And the "second hand sighting" was by Marcel Massini - an historian with more of a reputation than a person on a message board.
My interest in cars has always been their performance; never their provenance, uniqueness or exclusivity. Uniqueness of a car has always been foreign to me, and while I can appreciate the desire to collect something different, I've never understood how value pertains to a significant car (of which more than one has been made) when the real value is in what the car can do, not how it looks or the numbers it bears. With that said, if I owned something "one-off" - not just a car, anything, a coin, a stamp, anything - and someone claimed there were others just like it, I would first question that person's veracity and motive. And if they had no skin in the game aside from having witnessed the duplicate, then an investigation would ensue. The mere fact that Ferrari had a 99999 in the Galleria and Swaters requested the plate be removed - and the factory removed it! - shouldn't still have us at this point where we're questioning whether or not more than one 99999 was made. Rather the question remains, how many were made (I've heard rumors about four to six different 99999s) and why?
I'm at a loss determining how that's even an insult. But if insults are the base of your point of view, then I guess that explains a lot too.
No insult intended but if you don't care about provenance, you should at least stay out of commenting about cars when you have zero personal knowledge of what you're speaking of. Otherwise it's not only just a lot of hot air but as evidenced on this forum, some may believe your nonsense. Another internet "expert" turns out to just be an enthusiast "into performance".
I think you are missing the point of what a historian is. We seek the truth about items that are important to us, collecting the accounts from people who were there and combining them together to tell the entire story or at least as much of the story as can be told. I "know" a lot of things that I wasn't there to experience firsthand, but many of them have been corroborated through multiple sources - people who do have the credibility and experience. It is no different than what NNO has recounted here about what he 'knows' about #99999. I'd suggest you take a different tone in this discussion. For anyone to learn something they must have an open mind and no one, including you or me or Joe or NNO knows everything. >8^) ER
I have knowledge of this having researched it, and spoken with numerous Ferrari historians. My personal disinterest in exclusivity shouldn't disqualify me from participating in a discussion about which I have first-hand knowledge - irrespective of the fact that I didn't personally see the two cars (or three, or four, or five, or...). But my unanswered question still remains: why are you so opposed to the idea - the likelihood - that Ferrari stamped two cars with the same serial number? Why are you so invested in 99999 being the only one of its kind? I'm amused by your caste-style belittlement, but I never claimed to be an expert - far to the contrary, I'm "merely" an enthusiast. But one interested in facts, and without an agenda.
That is the (perhaps ineloquently put) point I was intending to make. Misinformation perpetuated and regurgitated is not helpful to the factual truth.
But you have no more factual truth than the rest of the people involved in this discussion. However, you've joined in with baseless comments, and still refuse to answer my question. So yours are misinformed comments just as much as the rest - only you have an attitude.
Quite the contrary. I have all the factory documentation necessary including the letter Mr Sheehan was sent asking him to retract his writings on the subject.
So you are allowed to have the attitude of a "Doubting Thomas", and others cant? You don't believe that it was Marcel who spotted it? Or you don't believe Marcel's claim to be true?
And I have factory documentation and a Classiche certification that says that a 2003 Enzo was built in 2008. This thread, whether directly or indirectly, calls the factory into question. Proof from them is like taking proof from John Wayne Gacy that he didn't harm any kids.
