In the End……Ferrari Disappoints This Old Engineer

Ok, well.. the only comment I can give then is that sucks. Hope you get a better car next time.

 

you gotta pay to play..but you knew what you were getting in to.

 

There are aftermarket solutions that address every issue you mentioned.

 

Actually, the 348 headers are very robust.


Very good post.

 

I really, really like smoking hot redhead super models.

 

You shouldn't have to go to the secondary market to make a $200K car work properly.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have an 07 F1 430 and have nothing but great things to say about it. In 8500 miles I have done nothing but put gas in and one battery change after a bad winter. Now because I'm no engineer I don't see all the things you might, but I appreciate your view on them. I had two Porsches before and personally think that the 430 feels better than both when pushed hard. Im currently looking to get back into a Porsche, but not at the expense of letting the horse out of the stable. Its here to stay, or at least until the Power Cube runs out again

 

That's a great post!

Thanks for writing it.

As my now departed friend JRV would observe, working late into the night:

"Lot's of people VISIT FerrariLand, Alan...but VERY few of them have what it takes to live there!"

I think he must have meant OBSCENE levels of disposable income!!

I think your observances are very fair. The only defence Ferrari might have is their constant pursuit of "cutting edge racing technolgy", but there's the view that for the money, the car should be built to give good service over time.

 

Well said and it is true about all those proablems with the Ferrari BUT you have to recognize that almost all Porsches ( exept the Carrera gt and lately the 918) have the same body design in which in turn i think the italians are doing a superb job ( it will come a time i hope when they will be excellent in the mechanical area) also you were right about the japanese enginering , they are awesome ( owned vr4 and nsx) their copy design is excellent ( nsx which made Ferrari become better at their design game)as far as the sound and driving experience hands down Ferrari ( also you could use a Capristo system on the Porsches and bassicaly transform the car sound radically) to me even with all the proablems , once you drive a ferrari ( you might get mad when you drive home in limp mode etc...lol) that feeling will remain with you , you will never forget it and yes it is pay to play.......

 

I fully agree, my 430 is exciting to drive and beautiful to look at but I have been disappointed with the quality of the engineering.
I too have a 400 mile round trip to the dealers and have made too many trips for service that shouldn’t have been needed on a new 300 K car. The worst being stranded without a clutch 500 miles from home.
Sure roadside assistance picked it up and took to a dealer for repair but I ended up having to take a greyhound bus home!
Talk about adding insult to injury!
I firmly believe if customers actually drove them and broke them well under warranty so that Ferrari actually had to pay to fix them they would start engineering a better product. But since so many hide them in a garage and never drive them by the time problems show up they are out of warranty and the expense is no longer Ferraris problem.

 

Thanks for your post. As a former air cooled 911 driver (3 cars owned over 17 years), I agree 110% with everything you say. It is simply disgusting, and aside from $8K of exhaust work needed on my car (1 header and new cats) plus replaced both airflow sensors at STUPID price after about 18,000 miles on the car, it's nuts. (the MAFs are about $150-200 on a normal car, on the 360 closer to $1,000 each!)

That said, no porsche ever gave me the driving experience the ferrari has (and I'm not talking about acceleration although it has more than enough of that)- the feel, feedback, sounds- the whole experience is amazing. And the looks of the 360 coupe are simply beautiful and timeless to me. I'd love another porsche (a 87-89 carrera, although any of the air cooled 911s are great execpt the 2.7 liter cars), but not in place of the ferrari- would have to be in addition to Once you have caught the ferrari fever it's tough to go to anything else! I agree with your assessment with the exception that it has not made me want to get rid of my car- as you say you mentally prepare that the maintence is going to be higher than the porsche. My frustration as yours is seemingly simple engineering items that are not properly designed. At least they have outsourced things like the A/C system and charging/electrical system- the A/C works better than any porsche I ever had

Not fixing the headers after a couple of decades now is not excusable. If the car weren't so damn hot it might get me a little more ticked off

 

Great post.

To the OP , As an engineer myself I can see your POV but would like to point out that all high performance cars have some failure or the other. I had 2 porsches , My 2004 911 Turbo had RMS leaks , failed accumulator (2 times), rear spolier failures.

My 2011 GT3 had a failed AC vent motor the very first week.

I agree with you Porsche's seem like they are over engineered and can take the abuse , but have a hard time beliving that a Ferrari is under engineered. I have had my Ferrari only for a day ...so its too early to tell. The headers issue is a real shame , this company can design a ultra complex double clutch trans but cannot build a good quality header.

 

Timeless indeed sir well said , give me an lfa engine in a 360( i actually thought about it ,if money will be no option ...lol) and i should live to be 200 .........

 

I'd have to agree with Fred but that's only after 10 months of owning a 2001 Spider.

I love a spirited drive in the car. I love the body style/looks and the heads it turns....BUT from an ENG perspective I'm a little disappointed with some things. The aluminum body/frame is great. The leather interior gets a lot of thumbs up. The engine is an amazing work of art/engineering....but the common problems are what cause concern.

A post this week shows avg 20K miles for an F1 Clutch and during that time you'll probably go through 2-3 F1 Pumps. That's seems dissmal to me. Yeah if you beat the **** of the car you should expect that but not everyone does and I know my clutch was replaced at 24K and I put a pump in at 29K. 2001 ECU stinks so I added the Formula D module.

Totally agree with the stickyness, insane this is such a problem.

I had to replace the electro-luminesent back lighting in my instrument cluster like many here....why choose a backlighing technology with such poor reliablity.

Stock exhaust is amazingly wimpy for a performance car....and manifolds that crack regulary with the trouble so many have had getting em replaced. US Emissions warranty is a great thing for those lucky enough to have a failure within 8/80K

Cam belts/idler short life is disappointing but sounds like they learned and went with chains in the 430....so givem some credit for improving.

Ball joints and tie rod ends that don't last have been making Hill Engineering rich. Why not have used parts like what Hill builds/sells, from the start. Performance cars have to endure harsh conditions and I would think having a suspension that can handle the rigors of spirited drives would be the norm.

Like anything first generation products can have issues. My understanding the F1 system and it's accompanying ECU were growing in the late 90's early 2000's. Things do get better so maybe I should have bought a 430.

I like Fred's Smoking hot Redhead analogy....my car is beautiful to look at, a blast to ride, but can be tempermental and expensive. I'm digging all aspects of this lady but I do have a little disappointment with some of my discoveries.

Not looking for a flame or to start a war, just wanted to cache some common feelings/thoughts for the next newbie who might want some insight B4 purchase.

 

Me too, or just hot redheads, I am not picky.

 

The Top Gear guys would agree with that too. German enginering vs Italian sexy. As my friend once commented. Owning a Ferrari is like dating an exotic dancer... You know there are going to be problems going into the relationship... but WOW they sure do look good.

 

What does that have to do with the fact that it is unacceptable for a six figure priced automobile to be so poorly engineered with recurring issues?

 

I will have the new ferrari exhaust manifolds on my 430 spider next week, out of warranty, gift from FNA. I've had them check for any indication that they might be needed and I guess they found something. So you don't have to go aftermarket. Ferrari does have a solution. And if you're dilligent about insuring you reguarly inspect your manifolds, there's no reason you can't get them replace in plenty of time. I'm asking about the brackets, don't know if there was campaign or not already, but it's a known problem and who cares if I have to buy a few Capristo brackets. I'm very happy to have the new genuine ferrari exhaust manifolds.

No kidding. Cars are nothing compared to women in terms of overhead, ferrari or otherwise. Gotta be willing to deal with it, both of them.

 

As for Fred's post, I am currently on my feet applauding him. Nothing I haven't mentioned before. Anytime you want the full 360 quality improvement list let me know, and you can add it to your refreshingly bold and honest post. Hopefully you won't receive any guff by disturbing the peace and upsetting the harmonic balance here.

To be fair like someone else mentioned, many turbo cars, including Porsche experience clogged cat issues, A/C issues, rattles upon delivery that take 20 years to diagnose, etc., etc.

This board is awesome, more owners need to voice complaints about some of the known quality control issues, only then may something be done to rectify them.

 

Problems happen with any car, that is true. But can you explain why Ferrari seems to be unable to engineer interior parts that don't turn into a black mess when MULTIPLE models in a row had all had the SAME problem? That is just unacceptable, and preventable.

Plus, how many Porsches do you see on the forums that catch fire? It is rare. How many Ferraris do you see on the forums that catch fire? Plenty! Poor design being a major contributing factor.

 

Fred

I've owned Ferrari's for 40 years and driven them 600K+ miles. Generally I agree with you and have re engineered and rebuild everyone I've owned to make them usable as daily drivers and Race cars.

That said they do have a certain something that has made my voyage very enjoyable.

Here's what we did with our 430 Scuderia.

Best


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KllovIo75fM&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

 

Makes you wonder why Ferrari does't do a better job to solve known problem areas such as the exhaust system. Ferrari covers exhaust problems during the warranty period.

On the other hand, if owners don't drive the car, then Ferrari has no idea of the poorly engineered or problem areas.

Ferrari should do better. But owners should do better too. Drive the damn thing. Put on at least 6-10K miles a year. And F-Dealers need to get an education too. An F-car that has 10- 15K miles/ year of ownership should not be sneered at. Unless we work together, the status quo will remain.

 

All I can say is I also have a 2006 430 Spider and have put 28,000 trouble free daily driver and track miles on it with no header problems, no sticky problems , and no electrical problems. It now needs a new clutch which is understandable.

Sorry you gave up on the "hot Italian super model" and have gone back to that old reliable, sturdy German gal.

 

Brett, I agree with you on this point. Most of these cars have less than 10,000 miles after a few years......no way to get the bugs worked out of them if they don't get driven.