How good is Sebastien Vettel? **Spoilers**

I have no idea how good Sebastien Vettel is because there never was a F1 driver with that name.

 

+10000 Post of the Week

 

Argh. I was working on that. Now I have to think of something else.

 

I say the former, but many say the latter. Both top cars and top drivers are incredibly close, so like somebody said, it's like splitting hairs. But in this case Vetter's incredible car control skills are what makes him better than ALL his competitors at the moment. His car could be a tenth or two better than the others, but NOT half a second. No way. It's the driver. This can never be settled scientifically, but only makes sense to me. And all the staggering statistics are starting to back him up. He's proving his detractors wrong. And Vettel 'cocky'? He's the most humble and down to earth of all drivers IMO, and he's the world champion.

And no, I'm not a fan of him, or any car brand, for that matter. I like to watch good racing, and let the best driver win. Similarly, just because I like a particular model, doesn't make me a fan of the brand. It can have crappy cars and good ones; in fact, they ALL fall into that category . And a good car could be great one generation, and a POS the next. Or vice versa. So I'd be the first to recognize a better driver when I see him. But now, Vettel is dominating so badly in every respect I don't know why anybody still has questions who's the best driver on the grid at the moment.

Bottom line is since you can't measure the car's difference, winning driver is always going to be considered the best, whether we like it or not . When Schumacher was winning, with an obviously superior car back then, all the fanboys said it was him. And now that cars are a lot closer but Vettel is winning by miles, it's the car and not the driver? We're lacking some consistency here boys < he he>. Have a great day gang.

 

So, let's look at the 'fantasy' race where the four drivers from the initial post are all driving the same car. Let's assume it is not an RB, McLaren or Ferrari so that no o e has an advantage.

Qualifying: Front row goes to Seb and Lewis, in that order. Seb seems to have an uncanny feel for car control coming out of the corners, and Lewis seems to have that 'if I die, I die' attitude. Alonso and Button on row two, in no particular order.

Race start: Lewis starts quicker than Seb, who then makes a blocking move, allowing Fernando to take both of them. Button smiles and bides his time.

Mid race: Seb has been battling with Alonso for several laps, rooting both their tires. Button is behind Lewis, smiling and waving in his mirrors. Lewis will not wait for the inevitable pit stop overtake, and stuffs his car into the Armco trying to go deep on Vettel.

Late laps: Button is now pressuring Vettel, having gone far deeper into the race on his starting tires. The tortoise is once again going to take out the hare. Vettel tries late braking a little too deep, allowing the fresher rubbered Button to take him on the inside line.

Final laps: Button... Alonso.... Button... Alonso... And the winner is...

Has to be Alonso. Of the two, Alonso is more the scrappy street fighter. Both of them are top class drivers, but head to head in the same car, I give Fernando the edge.

 

I can't believe this is even a question and why people need 4 pages to discuss this:

Vettel won in a POS Minardi. Nobody has ever done that before (Senna would have done it in Monaco if not French/Belgium chauvinism got in the way).

Vettel is one of the few super talents there are.

Need more proof?

How about youngest race winner, youngest WDC or youngest double WDC?

Vettel is the Lauda/Senna/Prost/Schumacher of this decade.

He will be at least a triple WDC if not more

 

Andreas you know that these questions can never be proven nor disproven. That's part of what makes it fun.
BTW you're absolutely correct

 

It's a fluke.

 

You're wrong here. The Red Bull has qualified on pole EVERY race this season. It's as dominant as the F2002 Ferrari was...no other car is close.

 

Vettel in the RB7 is dominant, look at Webber, hes no better than McLaren or Ferrari in it.

 

FWIW He has the best time of F1 drivers on the Top Gear test track.

 

+1. End of.

Monza also showed that he can definitely overtake if need be. Round the outside, on the grass of curva grande. Of a double world champion no less...

Vettel has definitely emerged into a thinking driver this season (although part of the reason is that he can afford to be a thinking driver). Last year after his engine blew in Korea he really was on the backfoot but managed to win the WDC, despite his points disadvantage.

Anyone that still thinks Vettel is a fluke is an idiot, end of.

 

LOL I like it except I would give Button the win Alonso would be on the hard tyres by now and even the safety car is faster than a Ferrari on hard tyres

Cant argue with that

 

I keep telling everyone...it's the tall poppy syndrome.

 

Apparently I have been watching a different F1 than you. How long have YOU been watching?

Vettel last year did not have a championship, hence nerves, and lest you forget he was only 23. Second of all, ALMOST ALL of the bad finishes for Vettel last year was due to reliability. Mean while last year when it counted, and under pressure, where "Vettel is unproven", he won 3 of the last 4 races and would have won all 4 had it not been for his engine blowing. And this is with Poles on all tracks (beside Brazil where Rosberg nicked him at the end) and dominating runs during the race.

The year before(2009 when he was 22) he finished SECOND in the WDC (-9 points) to the domination from Brawn/Jenson. Clearly he did not have the best car then? But he far out paced Lewis, Alonso or his team mate Webber. And this is with a moronic mistake he made in the first race crashing into Kubica.

Take off your blinders and quit living under a rock. You can claim he "almost" lost the championship last year, however he won it. Beating out Alonso who basically just had to show up but failed. Red Bull was fast last year but they were the most unreliable car on the grid. Kimi had the same hand delt a few years back and he couldn't win with McLaren.

 

Wasn't your point that Hamilton "almost" lost a championship to Massa? That argument goes both ways.

 

Webber doesn't know how to start a race. If he did, he would be alongside Vettel.

The problem for me, of course, is that he didn't have that problem last year as he and Seb were neck-and-neck. Why is it that this F1 vet suddenly doesn't know how to execute the start of a race??

 

A good question indeed and one of which he himself says "I don't understand it either".....

I guess it's time to queue the conspiracy theorists. "He's being sabotaged by his own team!......"

Cheers,
Ian

 

Honestly after hearing how his car bogged down on the start replay today, I can't say I would discount it if he made that statement. I personally don't believe that he's just morphed suddenly into the worst starter on the F1 grid since that hasn't been a glaring weakness his entire career.

 

He doesn't understand it either! However, I'm 100% certain his engineers are giving him the best info possible ("Clutch at 3.5" IIRC) and the team would like him to be in his "rightful" 2nd spot after the start - Just to give Seb some protection if nothing else.

I wonder how close they come in the simulator if practising starts? (Chris?.....) He certainly needs *something* to change, that's for sure!

Cheers,
Ian
PS - I predicted he'd moonwalk back to 6th, so this was something of a success for him!
PPS - MODS - Maybe add spoiler here before someone get in trouble? Thanks!

 

+2

 

Done

 

F1 organizers will think of means to break S.Vettels dominance next year...

I don`t think they will make the same mistakes they made with M. Schumacher and let him win 7x WCS

F1 can not afford another 7-year-period of foreseeable races and results while getting less and lesser attraction at the same time

so it will be interesting what they`re gonna do to keep public interest high (and advertising money flowing in in masses)


btw...S.Vettel is one of the most talented guys of all time...I agree

 

It may have happened earlier if Adrian Newey was the car designer.

 

Only too true my friend, sad to say, but the 'Fantasy Race' had them all in the same car.

That said, the part about Button the Tortoise pressuring Vettel's Hare... Another couple of laps today after clearing the traffic, and the podium order may very well have shifted.

(We did add the *SPOILERS* tag, right?)